Everything You Know About Crafting

[John Adams]

All,

We're in need of the entire scope of the VG Crafting system - all things crafting, any links to sites with info, specifics about unique/unusual crafting practices and an overview of what is considered "crafting" in the world of Vanguard. I have reviewed Exmortis' guide to Crafting and that has a lot of good info in it as well. But here's an idea of what I am looking for:

• Are there "Crafted Spells"?[/*2hsrm2l0]
• Did players come to crafters to get better Spells/Abilities?[/*2hsrm2l0]
• Is Crafting used to augment gear/items? Meaning, the crafting tables, not the popup integrator[/*2hsrm2l0]
• Aside from gem slots, can you in fact make an item "better" by running it through a crafting process? (Rusty Dirk to Shiny Dirk)[/*2hsrm2l0]
• Housing - is that considered "Crafting" when you put all your items together and pop the building?[/*2hsrm2l0]
• Same with boats. Anything else that can be made in this way?[/*2hsrm2l0]
• Can you craft "Mounts", besides boats?[/*2hsrm2l0]
• Tell me the difference between gems, dusts, imbues, or any other augmentation to a weapon or gear[/*2hsrm2l0]
• What is the Fail outcome? Do you get your stuff back? Was there even Failing in VG Crafting?[/*2hsrm2l0]
• I recall VG Crafting being "turn-based" vs EQ2's "real-time" reactions. True/False[/*2hsrm2l0]
• What can you make (I do not need a recipe list) that is not obvious from other MMORPGs that makes VG Crafting unique and awesome?[/*2hsrm2l0][/list:u]
  
  First, this is NOT a Wish List post. I am looking for facts, not "what ifs" here. We'll address bugs and enhancements after release. This is also not a debate post, so please do not get lost in other people's perceptions; merely tell us what you think of Crafting and we'll take it from there.
  
  Also, please don't just answer my bullet questions, but give me any additional info you have on the VG Crafting system - down to the smallest detail, if you wish. We can never have too much info.
  
  
  Harvesting/Crafting are likely the next big systems we'll tackle, but before developers write the first line of code I need to get this information so I can parse the data from the logs, and I need to know what data is irrelevant towards that effort. We likely will not be starting the Crafting system for a few months, so we have time to grill the community for input
  
  
  Please provide opinions, memories, facts and links below. Thank you in advance for your time.

[human0id]

[quote="John Adams"]

• Are there "Crafted Spells"?[/*3glk3gbj]
• Did players come to crafters to get better Spells/Abilities?[/*3glk3gbj]
• Is Crafting used to augment gear/items? Meaning, the crafting tables, not the popup integrator[/*3glk3gbj]
• Aside from gem slots, can you in fact make an item "better" by running it through a crafting process? (Rusty Dirk to Shiny Dirk)[/*3glk3gbj]
• Housing - is that considered "Crafting" when you put all your items together and pop the building?[/*3glk3gbj]
• Same with boats. Anything else that can be made in this way?[/*3glk3gbj]
• Can you craft "Mounts", besides boats?[/*3glk3gbj]
• Tell me the difference between gems, dusts, imbues, or any other augmentation to a weapon or gear[/*3glk3gbj]
• What is the Fail outcome? Do you get your stuff back? Was there even Failing in VG Crafting?[/*3glk3gbj]
• I recall VG Crafting being "turn-based" vs EQ2's "real-time" reactions. True/False[/*3glk3gbj]
• What can you make (I do not need a recipe list) that is not obvious from other MMORPGs that makes VG Crafting unique and awesome?[/*3glk3gbj][/list:u]
  [/quote]
  1. No
  2. No
  3. No
  4. No
  5. No (Imo it looks similar to trading - you "pay" a number of materials and get a house)
  6. Same as 5
  7. No
  8. I dont know
  9. Fail outcome is when you run out of points while crafting. No materials are returned and you gain no experience.
  10. True

[Jakkal]

Are there "Crafted Spells"?

Technically no. In order to get 51+ spells, you needed a crafter to make one of four items for the particular archetype in order to get their spells. This was called "Ancient Spellcrafting" in game. I can go into more detail in this entire process if you want, but I don't think it's needed here (And it's probably on one of the wikis alread). The crafting part of it required either a Pearl of Wisdom for Healers(artificer), A Rune of Battle for Melee DPS (Blacksmith), Tanks needed some kind of cloth or flag, I don't recall the name of it. Made by outfitters. Casters needed an Essence of Brilliance restored by Artificers.

Did players come to crafters to get better Spells/Abilities?

Only the above example.

Is Crafting used to augment gear/items? Meaning, the crafting tables, not the popup integrator

Yes, but only the augments. Crafters can socket unsocketed augments, so they can hold another augment of the same type. For example, if I had a Rune of Rage Reflection, a blacksmith could socket that. So I could put any other augment that was a "Rune" type in that augment's new slot.

Aside from gem slots, can you in fact make an item "better" by running it through a crafting process? (Rusty Dirk to Shiny Dirk)

No, the only thing you can make better like this an already crafted item that never went through the upgrade process. The upgrade process was a separate recipe from the main recipe to create items. Not all crafted items could be upgraded either. If you have a rare sword (yellow), then you can't upgrade it. If you had a blue version of that sword, you probably could.

Housing - is that considered "Crafting" when you put all your items together and pop the building?

Not to the players, no. Anyone could gather those mats, and they use that interface to put their mats into the build. But it's not considered crafting. Artifier/Minerologist can make the parts for the house, but ultimately the person/guild/people with build access to the land put it together via the popup window.

Same with boats. Anything else that can be made in this way?

Boats are actually crafted entirely by the Carpenter/Artificer (Save a few parts from the other crafting classes). Artificers put the whole thing together and give someone a boat that they can just pop on any body of waer.

Can you craft "Mounts", besides boats?

No.

Tell me the difference between gems, dusts, imbues, or any other augmentation to a weapon or gear

Oh, this is big. I am very, VERY rusty on this and my memory is fallible, so I might be getting some of the specific details wrong. Okay. So In order to make items with stats, you have to put "catalysts" on them. For the most part, this makes items blue. After a certain tier (T3? You have to use the catalysts). There are certain Catalyst types for each tier: T1/T2 = dusts, T3=powders, T4= Shards, T5=crystals. If you saw "Crystals of striking" or "Powder of virtue" that's what I'm talking about here. There are catalysts for various parts and stages (For the weaponsmith there are some you put on the hilt of a sword, and some you put on the ingots of the sword, and some you put on the finishing of the sword.)

The above is basic crafting.

If you're talking about socketed gear, the augments are found in world, and the crafter can only socket them with another slot, as listed above.

What is the Fail outcome? Do you get your stuff back? Was there even Failing in VG Crafting?

There was failing. Crafting was a minigame in itself. The objective was to get the highest quality (Which affected the stats on the item, as well as the XP gained), without running out of "Action Points" (AP). Here's a video of how it works: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_W5snx6pcHg He doesn't start crafting until about 4 minutes in, and he uses a 3rd party UI. But hopefully he explains it well enough.

The fail outcome is that you either: Run out of AP, in which case you just close the crafting window. You lose everything that you used up.
Other outcome: YOu didn't get a high enough grade. Sometimes this matters on quests or other things (LIke Ancient Spellcrafting). If it's not high enough quality, you get "Ruined material" or "Destroyed Material" or something like that. You still lose your mats and basically got vendor trash.

I recall VG Crafting being "turn-based" vs EQ2's "real-time" reactions. True/False

Yes, it is turned based, in that you decide what you want to do, and the game then shows the result. You can take your time on this.

What can you make (I do not need a recipe list) that is not obvious from other MMORPGs that makes VG Crafting unique and awesome?
Well the items you can make were actually useful, and very much custom. If I specifically want a sword with str/dex, or even con/dex, there's a way to make it happen. If I specifically want a sword that's str/dex, with an extra striking component, and an energy regeneration hilt*, I can make it. (This is an example I came up with off the top of my head, but some of the catalysts were specific to hilt types and such, so it might not be possible to make this specific combination). But it is possible to put this level of customization in game with certain materials.

Crafters are also needed to make all the end game armor, including APW, but also Pantheon.

There are some mobs in game that require the crafters to make something special in order to defeat them (Rinipin and Yerkj).

You didn't mention the complications at all. Do you want information on that too?

[Amnath]

I don't know if most regular items could be upgraded, but an upgrade process was very significant for Swamp armor. This was extremely complex, as the crafter would have to have enough faction to gain the recipes, and there were so many different sets, finding the right kind of crafter with enough of the right faction was kind of elusive. Whereas the "basic" Swamp armor didn't always impress people, they often didn't know about the upgrades, but those upgraded pieces were much better. On this one, I believe the crafter was actually making a rare component that the character used for a vendor turn in along with the original armor, so it's similar to the 51+ spells--crafting is required, but the final step is more like a trade.

Crafting in most games is, gather mats, click recipe, get item. With Vanguard, you have a crafting gear set which hugely influences your abilities, there are big bags that only hold crafting stuff, you have all the "dusts" to customize the attributes, you have the complications to fight, and you grind your teeth over spending more Action Points (for better results) or spending less (to have a better chance to complete the item).

Edit: sadly I cannot find a complete guide for Swamp armor any more. It was mostly adventuring, but as far as crafting, you could do work orders at Ruin Falls for faction, which was the fastest way to gain it.

[Jakkal]

Upgrading swamp armor required a component that crafters make, in addition to some dropped items. The person that wanted to upgrade needed the armor piece, the stuff from the crafter, and the other things. They'd use the assembly window to assemble the final piece. It wasn't, in itself, crafting.

[John Adams]

Great info, all. Keep it coming.

[quote="Jakkal"]You didn't mention the complications at all. Do you want information on that too?[/quote]
I should have asked about complications, though I (maybe mistakenly) thought I understood them. While crafting, a goof happens showing me what's wrong, and I pick a reaction to it to solve the problem and move on, hopefully increasing my completion and quality without running out of points.

But yes, please give me a better description unless you think it's covered in that video or other resources you might know of.

Thanks!

[Amnath]

You can also choose to ignore complications, which, if it's minor, on something easy you are grinding for xp, you'll probably be fine. If you decide to fix it, you may, for example, find that oil works better than water. What you can use is determined by what you put in your belt pouches--even if you had a 50 slot crafting bag, it's just storage space, so if you didn't put the oil in your pocket to start with, you could only use the water.

I'm positive you can upgrade crafted items in general, as I just looted a level 23 "Stiff leather weapon upgrade recipe".

[Jakkal]

I'm not sure what the video had listed for complications, I didn't have time to really listen to it. So I'll give you my take and you'll have at least two perspectives.

While you're crafting away, there's always a chance that a complication can come up. This depended on a lot of factors: Your stat points, the gear durability, the gear stats etc. If you have really low stats, your chances of a complication go way up.

But anyway, complications come up, and to get rid of them, as you level up, you get "new abilities" that counter the complications. They're just like the ability options you get during crafting, but you only use them for specific complications.

Complications can do a variety of things: Increase the amount of AP needed for each action, increase grade with an AP point penalty, reduce the grade, reduce your effectiveness, increase effectiveness. And as you go along, you get more options to remove them (or keep them if they're good).

Crafting is the only sphere in VG where it gets easier as you get higher in level. Because as you gain levels you gain more ability to deal with complications, and make a better grade with the fewest points used. You also get better gear, and more slots for both tools and stuff on your table.

You can upgrade certain crafted items, such as the usual weapons and gear. The Stiff leather weapon upgrade recipe was for T3 handwraps. For some reason they made these mob drops as opposed to getting them for Sigils (Or the really old version where you got upgrade recipes from work order rewards.) But you can only upgrade crafted items if they're not yellow or above. If they are, you won't be able to put them on the table in the recipe. For example if you have the yellow handwraps, but want the orange version, you can't do it. You'd have to craft the blue version (or buy the blue version) and run it through the upgrade recipe.

[Ratief]

Since I am hoping to be the one that works on crafting, or at least start it. I just want to mention that I am Very familiar with VG's crafting as I had a level 45ish before the xp curve change and over the years leveled 4 crafters to 55. I'm very excited about making crafting even better in our version of Vanguard!

For the most part I think the parts that need parsed will be the recipes and crafting actions. Other then that it's just normal items. I think the hard part will be figuring out a good way to map input items to output item.

I will mention that there are a few things that I might tweak about crafting.
1) Shortly after launch the devs randomized the actions (per recipe) in an effort to stop botting. It never did anything except annoy players so I was going to put them back into the original order (or at least a consistent order).
2) I plan on sending the recipes to the client in a sorted order! No more lists of randomly ordered recipes!
3) VG crafting was originally coded to be able to add only 2 items per recipe (primary component, and secondary component (dust)). The other components just got magically consumed when you finished the item. Also, when recipes got added post 50, it became pretty apparent that the code just didn't allow for the player to actually add the additional items for a recipe as they started to add more magically consumed items to recipes. I have toyed with the idea of making these into actions for the recipes instead of having them magically used. If nothing else I plan to write the code to support adding more then just the primary and secondary items. IE (the names are bogus): for a Scholar's Leather Belt of Spell Casting that takes scholar's leather, cloth padding, and a spell casting crystals, I am thinking about creating a new action to add the cloth padding instead of having it magically consumed when you finish the recipe. My primary reasoning for a change like this is to make the crafting process more obvious. When a recipe calls for an item, but you are never allowed to add said item, it is just a bit strange.

I am also interested in people's opinions about deconstruction. Should that be moved back to crafting like it originally was?

Edit:
I would also love to try to get dyes working! I remember those old days when you could get berries while harvesting... I had a stack of 5-6 of each of those. That would be after we get everything else working though.

[Amnath]

Some things about Vanguard crafting I would say come down to the same as any game: things like crafted bags and horseshoes are a total barometer of the economy, since all classes use them and not everyone will be crafting.

Whereas you can have two harvesting skills, you can only be one kind of crafter--not just boats and houses, but some other items require two kinds of crafter to make. Some will accomplish this with alts, but, in theory, it gives you a reason to employ another player.

One thing that never seemed big to me, was any type of healing potion--they probably have them, but if you drink it, that would blow your cooldown for a bunch of stuff. I don't know if the "cooldown knot" resides in the client and we have to live with it, but it stinks.

A "potion" that was worth drinking (can be called a slate carving, etc.) was for invisibility to undead. Unless you are a cleric, these types of crafted goodies are pretty much the only way to bypass undead mobs. FD'ers can always try, but if I remember rightly, the crafted stuff does not break early like a spell can.

Also, crafting levels (or diplo) unlock riftways. I can be a level 1 adventurer, and yet be able to rift to kdq if I want to develop a character that way (I've seen it done).

Another nice touch is the stackable effects such as Jeric's Resolution--not sure if other games have this, but it essentially gives you the option to make a "gear set" at any level range.

Edit for Ratief's post: makes total sense to move deconstruction into crafting, for one: if I can't make stuff, why would I be able to break it into usable parts? And two, the only reason for a non-crafter to do it is for extra vendor cash, which is just kinda cheesy.