State of the Emulator and other things
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State of the Emulator and other things
Hello Guys,
As an avid player of Vanguard Saga of Heroes who spent countless hours in the game I was delighted when I saw the work you guys did on the emulator. Since then I have been following the project and logging into Telon, admiring the music and reminiscing about all the great times I had ingame. Just exploring the locations in my favourite game filled me with joy. However since the code needs to be reconstructed from scratch in conjunction with the few people working on the project, progress is slow and the question remains whether the emulator will ever be in a state where it is properly playable again. I would volunteer my help with coding but do not have the necessary ability to do so and hope to improve my skills so I can be of assistance.
However while brainstorming briefly some other avenues to explore rose to mind. These would potentially help to accelerate the process of getting our beloved game back again. I am not sure about the actual implementation and feasibility of them but would like to throw them out here. I was wondering whether any of the guys working on the project have attempted to contact DBG about attaining the source code so something along the lines of Project 99 would be possible. Alternatively one could consider attempting to buy out the rights for the game. Money could be collected by a GoFundMe page so we could have players hosting and managing the servers. Alternatively a small studio could be convinced to buy the game from DBG (I recognize how unlikely this is). I am pretty sure that the cost of both of these options would not be great as the games servers are down anyways. Alternatively we could start a petition to collect signatures to get the servers back online. As we have seen with the hype surrounding WoW Classic and the general spread of "refugees" of the classic MMO genre throughout several games the demand for a game of this sort is high. Furthermore the fans of classic MMOs are amongst the most loyal and diehard that I have ever seen and would support this greatly. I would also try to spread the word about the emulator to get as much help as possible and speed up the process.
I know that some of these solutions are very unlikely to work but I think some may be worth exploring. As far as I can tell it will be a long time down the road till Vanguard will be as it was before it was shut down. The general lack of information about the game and difficulty to code prove this. I hope that you guys consider some of these ideas and I would be glad to help out where I can. I can only hope that eventually my favourite game will be playable again.
Dektajo
As an avid player of Vanguard Saga of Heroes who spent countless hours in the game I was delighted when I saw the work you guys did on the emulator. Since then I have been following the project and logging into Telon, admiring the music and reminiscing about all the great times I had ingame. Just exploring the locations in my favourite game filled me with joy. However since the code needs to be reconstructed from scratch in conjunction with the few people working on the project, progress is slow and the question remains whether the emulator will ever be in a state where it is properly playable again. I would volunteer my help with coding but do not have the necessary ability to do so and hope to improve my skills so I can be of assistance.
However while brainstorming briefly some other avenues to explore rose to mind. These would potentially help to accelerate the process of getting our beloved game back again. I am not sure about the actual implementation and feasibility of them but would like to throw them out here. I was wondering whether any of the guys working on the project have attempted to contact DBG about attaining the source code so something along the lines of Project 99 would be possible. Alternatively one could consider attempting to buy out the rights for the game. Money could be collected by a GoFundMe page so we could have players hosting and managing the servers. Alternatively a small studio could be convinced to buy the game from DBG (I recognize how unlikely this is). I am pretty sure that the cost of both of these options would not be great as the games servers are down anyways. Alternatively we could start a petition to collect signatures to get the servers back online. As we have seen with the hype surrounding WoW Classic and the general spread of "refugees" of the classic MMO genre throughout several games the demand for a game of this sort is high. Furthermore the fans of classic MMOs are amongst the most loyal and diehard that I have ever seen and would support this greatly. I would also try to spread the word about the emulator to get as much help as possible and speed up the process.
I know that some of these solutions are very unlikely to work but I think some may be worth exploring. As far as I can tell it will be a long time down the road till Vanguard will be as it was before it was shut down. The general lack of information about the game and difficulty to code prove this. I hope that you guys consider some of these ideas and I would be glad to help out where I can. I can only hope that eventually my favourite game will be playable again.
Dektajo
Re: State of the Emulator and other things
Xinux would be the one to answer, but I can reply to some of these points:
1. Daybreak - We've tried to contact them, they're incommunicado to us. We don't know why they won't communicate, but they've chosen not to. This could have something to do with the legalities of the game and them clearing themselves of any association should something come up. I know, they say they support emulators, but keep in mind that Vanguard is built on the Unreal Engine, and Epic owns that. And Epic also charges you for using it. So there's some grey areas here that we need to keep in mind.
2. Petitions - They were started the moment VG announced they would shut down. Obviously this did nothing. I mean, sure if someone wants to try again, I'd support it. But I'm just stating that it was tried and it didn't help at the time (When we had lots of people in-game to communicate with. Now we're all spread out).
3. Buying the Game - I mean, sure. If Daybreak would communicate on that subject. Maybe we don't have the 'right guys' to talk to their 'right guys'.
I know our work is slow, but I like to think it's 'slowly but surely'. VG is a behemoth to tackle and it takes us a while to get a section done. We will get it done. But it will take time.
1. Daybreak - We've tried to contact them, they're incommunicado to us. We don't know why they won't communicate, but they've chosen not to. This could have something to do with the legalities of the game and them clearing themselves of any association should something come up. I know, they say they support emulators, but keep in mind that Vanguard is built on the Unreal Engine, and Epic owns that. And Epic also charges you for using it. So there's some grey areas here that we need to keep in mind.
2. Petitions - They were started the moment VG announced they would shut down. Obviously this did nothing. I mean, sure if someone wants to try again, I'd support it. But I'm just stating that it was tried and it didn't help at the time (When we had lots of people in-game to communicate with. Now we're all spread out).
3. Buying the Game - I mean, sure. If Daybreak would communicate on that subject. Maybe we don't have the 'right guys' to talk to their 'right guys'.
I know our work is slow, but I like to think it's 'slowly but surely'. VG is a behemoth to tackle and it takes us a while to get a section done. We will get it done. But it will take time.
Re: State of the Emulator and other things
Thank you for the quick and detailed response. The ideas I mentioned above were ones which popped into my mind and was unsure if they had been explored already. I was wondering how you had attempted to communicate with them? I know that it can be difficult to reach the devs through the forum. Posts which gain traction on twitter or reddit tend to have a greater effect (in my experience). I know you will despise these questions but it is hard for me to quantify how far along with the project you are already and how much still needs to be done. Thus it is impossible for me to determine when it would be "finished" if it would continue to progress at the same pace. I realize that it is probably impossible to comment on this but would appreciate a rough estimate. As I stated previously I will attempt to help in any capacity that I can.Jakkal wrote: ↑Thu Jan 04, 2018 9:15 am Xinux would be the one to answer, but I can reply to some of these points:
1. Daybreak - We've tried to contact them, they're incommunicado to us. We don't know why they won't communicate, but they've chosen not to. This could have something to do with the legalities of the game and them clearing themselves of any association should something come up. I know, they say they support emulators, but keep in mind that Vanguard is built on the Unreal Engine, and Epic owns that. And Epic also charges you for using it. So there's some grey areas here that we need to keep in mind.
2. Petitions - They were started the moment VG announced they would shut down. Obviously this did nothing. I mean, sure if someone wants to try again, I'd support it. But I'm just stating that it was tried and it didn't help at the time (When we had lots of people in-game to communicate with. Now we're all spread out).
3. Buying the Game - I mean, sure. If Daybreak would communicate on that subject. Maybe we don't have the 'right guys' to talk to their 'right guys'.
I know our work is slow, but I like to think it's 'slowly but surely'. VG is a behemoth to tackle and it takes us a while to get a section done. We will get it done. But it will take time.
Dektajo
Re: State of the Emulator and other things
Buying the game? I'd think that'd be in the millions of dollars, best case hundreds of thousands. Even for a dead game, it's still their code and intellectual property. And that doesn't account for Epic's involvement, which would likely be much harder to get as we're not an official game company.
Re: State of the Emulator and other things
I believe that we tried to contact Daybreak via their corporate offices. I know Smedley was asked about it several times while he was still there. Their Twitter seemed to ignore anyone that brought up Vanguard. I don't have the exact details of what others have tried though. We try to do things in professional, business like manner by going through the company.
Re: State of the Emulator and other things
I have no idea how expensive it would be to acquire a dead game. I would assume that it has no use in its current capacity and thus a smaller amount of money would suffice. But like I said I have knowledge regarding this matter and can only assume. And naturally the use of Unity is a valid point.OncaLupe wrote: ↑Thu Jan 04, 2018 9:29 am Buying the game? I'd think that'd be in the millions of dollars, best case hundreds of thousands. Even for a dead game, it's still their code and intellectual property. And that doesn't account for Epic's involvement, which would likely be much harder to get as we're not an official game company.
Re: State of the Emulator and other things
Honestly, once we get crafting up, I would love to point Daybreak to the Isle of Dawn (Our proof of concept chunk) and show them what we can do. I'd ask them if they could host it again, figure out how much it would cost, spread the fees out to all the players (No matter the cost) and let us maintain it. I'd work for free on the official game if they let me. And if they could pay me, I'd definitely work full time.
I would love to have access to the client so I could make new armor, new gear, new mobs.
So contacting them is definitely something we talk about every now and then. They just .. won't respond.
I would love to have access to the client so I could make new armor, new gear, new mobs.
So contacting them is definitely something we talk about every now and then. They just .. won't respond.
Re: State of the Emulator and other things
Even if it's not being used currently, it's still their code and intellectual property. They're not gonna just give it up for a small bit of money. At the very least, they'll want to keep it on the off chance they decide to make a sequel. And even if they did decide to sell it to us, we'd still have to negotiate with Epic for use of their Unreal engine.Dektajo2 wrote: ↑Thu Jan 04, 2018 9:34 am I have no idea how expensive it would be to acquire a dead game. I would assume that it has no use in its current capacity and thus a smaller amount of money would suffice. But like I said I have knowledge regarding this matter and can only assume. And naturally the use of Unity is a valid point.
Re: State of the Emulator and other things
I have personally talked to Smedley a few times over email back when he was there. What it comes down to is licensing and intellectual property. SOE/Daybreak added in a good bit of proprietary code into Vanguard once they acquired the right's from Microsoft which acquired it from Sigil. Then you have Epic Unreal Engine 2.5 license which would also need to be acquired since the game is built on that engine and if I remember right the license fee was around $650,000 or i'm thinking of UE3 it's been a long time either way it would not be cheap.
What would be a huge help is the database they used since it would house everything we would need which is what I was trying to get and wouldn't involve any proprietary code or at least the information they offer with EQ2 and planetside 2 via the census api.
Since you mentioned Project 99 they did not get any code from daybreak they only entered a deal to allow them to run the emulator without fear of being shutdown and they have to follow a guideline as to not conflict with anything happening on the live servers. FYI emulator work for Everquest started back in late 2000 if i remember right so it has almost 18 years of work behind it and also had the live version of the game they could reference anytime they needed something..
I'm open to talk to anyone from Daybreak if they want to discuss the Emulator.
What would be a huge help is the database they used since it would house everything we would need which is what I was trying to get and wouldn't involve any proprietary code or at least the information they offer with EQ2 and planetside 2 via the census api.
Since you mentioned Project 99 they did not get any code from daybreak they only entered a deal to allow them to run the emulator without fear of being shutdown and they have to follow a guideline as to not conflict with anything happening on the live servers. FYI emulator work for Everquest started back in late 2000 if i remember right so it has almost 18 years of work behind it and also had the live version of the game they could reference anytime they needed something..
I'm open to talk to anyone from Daybreak if they want to discuss the Emulator.
Re: State of the Emulator and other things
I asked Brad what his thoughts are about Sunsetting an MMO. He wrote this as an answer: https://www.pantheonmmo.com/content/blo ... ing-an-mmo
This is not really helping you in the current situation. But it gives some insights and hope that Pantheon will not have the same fate.
This is not really helping you in the current situation. But it gives some insights and hope that Pantheon will not have the same fate.