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Multiboxing

Posted: Thu Jun 18, 2015 7:15 pm
by mythdrannor
Please allow it! I have a lot of experience with this topic, in Vanguard and other games. I've done it all. And I'll share my findings.

PEQ TGC - it is an Everquest emulator which is very accurate, but they allow macroquest. So in that game I ran my own entire raid force. 18 characters all played together, and from my tank I would issue commands to any of them to do anything. It was fun, but it gets boring because there is not much challenge when you have your own entire raid. Especially if like me you prefer just doing dungeons.

In EQ Mac I ran a 6 box, but that did not allow any macroing. It was fun, challenging, but ultimately tedious and too much hard work. I never ran anywhere close to full potential because while I was grabbing aggro on the tank, then switching to chanter to slow, and then cleric to start healing, the other 3 characters were standing around doing nothing. It was ok but just not really fun, and it ruined grouping - in that nobody bothered to group.

In Shards of Dalaya (another EQ emulator but remade with slightly different content), they restricted it to 2 characters. This was really good, it meant that if you ended up solo, you could get by, no matter what class you were. Want to play a rogue but worried because you don't have a regular group? No problem, roll a pally or something as your second character and now your rogue can do some really meaningful 'soloing' when you don't have a group. It actually made soloing incredibly fun because you always had 2 characters so could do so much more than just kiting crocks in oasis or whatever. You could do almost anything and go almost anywhere, even group content in dungeons. It just meant you had to be really careful and go really slow. But it also really helped with grouping. Everyone REALLY wanted to group because the XP was so much faster like that, the gear drops were always better too because it flowed faster, and you were also not risking dying every minute too because a group is far safer. And it made grouping easier if anything, because you only needed 3 people to make a full group. And if another person eventually shows up, someone just drops one of their boxes which people were glad to do because it let them focus on their favorite. And again, if you had that rogue/pally combo I mentioned earlier, and some group just needed a tank, you could join it with your tank and hope to eventually swap your rogue later on if another tank shows up.

Al'kabor 2, EQ mac 2. This server is new and like copy of EQ mac, but they have limited it to 3 characters. In my opinion this is the perfect solution. It has all those advantages of the 2 box I mentioned previously, but it makes it so much more meaningful when you do end up soloing. The problem with just 2 characters is that min/max rules dictate the only real way to progress well like that, is to go with a tank and healer. But with 3 characters you can try far more interesting combinations. Or stick with tank/healer but instead of tediously chipping away at mobs, you can now have 1 dps to at least make it die this century. But it also means you HAVE to group to do dungeons properly and to make good XP.

Now for Vanguard, I played it all the way as a solo character (as I did with EQ), then came back and did it again as a 2 box. It was a lot more fun because it is just so much more engaging. It also meant that some of the weaker solo classes could solo much more easily, and with two strong classes that worked well together (DK and healer was fantastic), you could even do some group/dungeon content. If played Vanguard for about 6 years and if it wasn't for multiboxing, I never would have lasted even 2 years. I used to entire days without finding a group to come and join me at Dargun's Tomb, that's when I bought a second subscription and levelled up a second character, and suddenly I could start doing the questline by myself - albeit slowly and with lots of wipes. I still had to get a group to do the late stages but the game became a lot less boring thanks to 2 boxing. I then added a third character and it just got better again. I ended up restarting from level 1 with three new characters, my perfect little trio. Again questlines like Dargun's Tomb, I could do all of that by myself now, apart from the last step. It took me a very long time and it was dangerous, but I could do it and I enjoyed it. If you are a lonewolf type player then there is nothing better than playing like this. Eventually when the game dropped the subscription, I started playing as a 6 box. This was really fun too, it's like playing a classic party based RPG like Baldur's Gate or something, but in real time... very tense, very exciting, very involving, very fun. I found the same issue as EQ mac though, it was counter productive having 6 characters, because (especially in Vanguard) you have to focus on one character to really make them pull their weight. So having 6 characters was not any better than having 3 characters, I killed at more or less the same pace and in fact 3 was easier because I could focus more and had less micromanagement to do too.

Anyway, not sure if you have thought about boxing rules on this server but I just wanted to put in my plea early for this to be allowed. I don't really care what the limit is, 2 is fine for me, so is 3 4 5 or 6. I just don't want to have to play as 1 character again because once you have got the hang of multiboxing, it is hard to go back. Although if I could suggest a perfect number, I would say limit it to 2 or 3.

Re: Multiboxing

Posted: Fri Jun 19, 2015 9:51 am
by Ily
Not to get down on multi-boxing but here are my thoughts

As a staunch supporter for Everquest (from launch day), Vanguard and McQuaids vision, boxing does not create, support or make tight nit communities; something all of his games were designed for.

Want to get your corpse, better have a good group, guild or friends?
Want to kick ass in the face of adversity (not only a game challenge but loosing the challenge is lost hours through XP loss), make sure who you group with is on task and is serious.

Re: Multiboxing

Posted: Mon Jul 20, 2015 11:01 am
by Jammer
I could see allowing two accounts per IP which would allow spouses, fathers & sons, brothers & sisters, etc. to be able to play together. I don't think it's necessary to allow more than that.

Re: Multiboxing

Posted: Wed Jul 22, 2015 6:47 pm
by Dinenon
2 connections per IP would be _way_ too restrictive IMO.

I regularly have up to 5 accounts playing games from my house:

Myself
Son
Roommate
2 of my brothers (Come to town and lan party somewhat frequently).

So, that is 5 unique players from the same IP, 4 of which are VG vets, and my son likes to play any game we play. We are all looking forward to roaming through Telon once again (or for the first time for my son).

On top of that, I myself have multi-boxed up to 6 accounts in Vanguard in the past. Honestly, I think it should be up to the server administrator to decide to allow or disallow boxing, but do the moderation with common sense. It is very, very easy to spot a multiboxer in the wild, so connections per IP and other gimmicky "fixes" should not be needed. Just have it known that on your server, multi-boxing is not allowed, and request that anybody that sees a multi-boxer put in a support ticket and have a mod review the case. This exact thing has happened to me on several occasions on multiple games (I always verify that boxing is allowed before doing so in any game)...all resulted in similar "You aren't cheating and you aren't directly interfering with anybody's game play, so have a nice day!" from the moderators who came to question me.

Re: Multiboxing

Posted: Wed Jul 22, 2015 7:46 pm
by John Adams
I'll put the kabosh on this topic now by saying VGOEmu has no intention of limiting how many clients can connect from a single IP. Not even sure where that came from, but no fears. What we will do is restrict accounts to logging in once (there are technical reasons for this requirement), since accounts are free and the LaunchPad makes managing accounts effortless.

So feel free to run 100 clients on 100 accounts and box your hearts out We'll actually be calling on pro-boxers for stress testing anyway

Re: Multiboxing

Posted: Thu Jul 23, 2015 7:10 am
by Crispin
glad to hear it!

Re: Multiboxing

Posted: Thu Jul 23, 2015 9:19 am
by shargash
Boxing can actually promote community on a low-population server, which is what I think we can expect in the emulator. I spent a lot of time in the dead years of Vanguard boxing in groups in places like Dargun's, Trickster's, and Nusibe. In any case, boxing is no more antisocial than soloing. The barrier to community is attitude, not in how many accounts you're playing.

Re: Multiboxing

Posted: Thu Jul 23, 2015 10:10 am
by Jakkal
I too used to box on VG. I found it much more challenging and interesting than just soloing.

When I got my Paladin through POTA trials (I was mostly on my own since my guild at the time couldn't really help and didn't want to help alts), I was waiting for a group to finish Vaelion so that maybe I could try to get a group to do it. One of the people in that group asked if I needed it and I said yes. They dropped one of their people and told me exactly what to do. We didn't do the group-drop method at all (The old cheaty way to get through it). I sat there whole time thinking about how amazing those players were.

I found out once we were done that it was a single person boxing everyone in that group. He was really good, and I don't think he was botting.

Re: Multiboxing

Posted: Sat Jul 25, 2015 6:16 am
by Glenzig
I'm not a fan of boxing and generally avoid games that do not put a cap on it. However, it only makes sense to allow it here. The population on live was so low for so long that it was pretty much obligatory. So I can't see not having it on this project.

Re: Multiboxing

Posted: Mon Jul 27, 2015 3:11 pm
by Zewtastic
Well some servers could allow it, some could block it. Same as they do on p99.