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[quote="Cyrcle"][quote="Kilsin"]

Crowfall really isn't doing anything for me man...it's just the same old story rehashed with bigger words to make it sound cool, we will have to wait and see I suppose but the graphics have already turned me off it, I really dislike that art style in games.

I hope I am wrong though, it would be nice for the PvPers to get a good game similar to Shadowbane.[/quote]
I actually like the art style. It's a more clean/smooth cartoony style as opposed to the harsh cartoon style of say WoW or Allods. I'm not huge on PvP but the class system sounds interesting.[/quote]

Yeah I dislike WoW and Allods graphics too, I kind of clump them all together with that style, it just annoys me for some reasons, makes me think it's a kids game!

The game has been deemed a fairly hardcore PvP full loot kind of game, which is also not for me as I am pretty much strictly PvE when it comes to MMORPGs, I only like my PvP in FPS/Survival games etc.

But again, we will have to wait and see, I hope they produce a good game, our industry needs it at the moment!

Back on topic:

I feel uneasy about these layoffs at DayBreak, some of these people were very talented and huge in the communities eyes for EQ, EQ 2, VG and EQL, EQN...hopefully they will snap up positions quickly in other companies to continue to do what they love.

Whether we like them or not for decisions they make on games we play, they still have families and need to pay bills and put food on the table like the rest of us, so it's never nice to see this happen, even if it is somewhat expected within this industry.

I wish them all well in finding new work soon.

[quote="Kilsin"]
Back on topic:

I feel uneasy about these layoffs at DayBreak, some of these people were very talented and huge in the communities eyes for EQ, EQ 2, VG and EQL, EQN...hopefully they will snap up positions quickly in other companies to continue to do what they love.

Whether we like them or not for decisions they make on games we play, they still have families and need to pay bills and put food on the table like the rest of us, so it's never nice to see this happen, even if it is somewhat expected within this industry.

I wish them all well in finding new work soon.[/quote]

But yet you were all too happy to wish their company tanked while they were still employed by Daybreak... That's slightly duplicitous...

The layoffs are definitely worrisome though, if only from the stand-point that I felt that the work they were doing with EQ:N could have really spurred some change in the MMO space and took it out of its rut. Because let's be honest... The MMO area has been stagnating and it's no wonder that every new game trying to follow the same model has failed.

And at the end of the day, if this is the end of an era, we have no one to blame but ourselves (as a community at large, not necessarily the folks here).

We kept paying the companies who put out games we didn't really like, who took the games we did like in directions we didn't. And there's no greater voice than the constant bankroll of a subscription. We kept paying into games that devolved from lush and diverse open worlds to gear treadmills that narrowed the scope and vision of what was once great.

We kept clamouring for content on schedules that could never be met, only to complain about lack of content in the end and then just keep on paying for it.

I'm just as guilty of this as anyone else. I kept paying my Vanguard subscription well after the game stopped being about what originally drew me in to it (basically everything after the Shores of Darkness deployment), when I should have stopped and made it clear by no longer supporting the company that the direction was not one I approved of.

I sincerely hope that some of the upcoming projects can make a difference.

I sincerely hope that Pantheon shows there's a market for something group and exploration oriented. I sincerely hope EQ:N shows that lock-step vertical progression isn't necessary to have a feeling of growing power.

Ultimately, I just want to see a game come out that can give something similar to the original Vanguard feeling; of actually being in a great big living world. Vanguard, like no other MMO I've played, made me feel like it was a whole world. I didn't feel like I was stuck on some set path winding me through the sights.

I do hope that Daybreak makes something good of this because layoffs are always awkward and painful. And I very much hope the people affected find good homes soon. I know some of the people here weren't fond of Moorgard because of what he had to implement in VG but he showed he genuinely cared about the products he worked on and seemed to be a good guy, along with a number of the others let go.

I wish I had some money. Assuming Daybreak owns the IP to Vanguard, I bet they'd let it go for a song.

[quote="shargash"]I wish I had some money. Assuming Daybreak owns the IP to Vanguard, I bet they'd let it go for a song.[/quote]
They brought everything they owned from SOE over, I am assuming, unless there is an issue with the Unreal engine license.

[quote="Koralith"][quote="Kilsin"]
Back on topic:

I feel uneasy about these layoffs at DayBreak, some of these people were very talented and huge in the communities eyes for EQ, EQ 2, VG and EQL, EQN...hopefully they will snap up positions quickly in other companies to continue to do what they love.

Whether we like them or not for decisions they make on games we play, they still have families and need to pay bills and put food on the table like the rest of us, so it's never nice to see this happen, even if it is somewhat expected within this industry.

I wish them all well in finding new work soon.[/quote]

But yet you were all too happy to wish their company tanked while they were still employed by Daybreak... That's slightly duplicitous...

The layoffs are definitely worrisome though, if only from the stand-point that I felt that the work they were doing with EQ:N could have really spurred some change in the MMO space and took it out of its rut. Because let's be honest... The MMO area has been stagnating and it's no wonder that every new game trying to follow the same model has failed.

And at the end of the day, if this is the end of an era, we have no one to blame but ourselves (as a community at large, not necessarily the folks here).

We kept paying the companies who put out games we didn't really like, who took the games we did like in directions we didn't. And there's no greater voice than the constant bankroll of a subscription. We kept paying into games that devolved from lush and diverse open worlds to gear treadmills that narrowed the scope and vision of what was once great.

We kept clamouring for content on schedules that could never be met, only to complain about lack of content in the end and then just keep on paying for it.

I'm just as guilty of this as anyone else. I kept paying my Vanguard subscription well after the game stopped being about what originally drew me in to it (basically everything after the Shores of Darkness deployment), when I should have stopped and made it clear by no longer supporting the company that the direction was not one I approved of.

I sincerely hope that some of the upcoming projects can make a difference.

I sincerely hope that Pantheon shows there's a market for something group and exploration oriented. I sincerely hope EQ:N shows that lock-step vertical progression isn't necessary to have a feeling of growing power.

Ultimately, I just want to see a game come out that can give something similar to the original Vanguard feeling; of actually being in a great big living world. Vanguard, like no other MMO I've played, made me feel like it was a whole world. I didn't feel like I was stuck on some set path winding me through the sights.

I do hope that Daybreak makes something good of this because layoffs are always awkward and painful. And I very much hope the people affected find good homes soon. I know some of the people here weren't fond of Moorgard because of what he had to implement in VG but he showed he genuinely cared about the products he worked on and seemed to be a good guy, along with a number of the others let go.[/quote]

I was not deceitful at all, I was clear in my message that the multi platform side of things is a cancer on our industry and I wish it to fail, they were always a PC gaming company and I wish them well in that area of their business.

No one was working on multi platform games when I made that statement, no games were produced and no staff assigned to any new multi platform area's of the business, so it was not a jab at the staff but rather taking aim at the idea of multi platform as it rarely bodes well for PC gamers. I did not wish the employees any harm, it is the "idea" of the transition that I was taking aim at not the people involved, staff were already going to lose their jobs before they created new divisions to work on the new multi platform games and I hope it fails before any staff are assigned.

I also never saw EQN as anything other than a lot of - telling people what they wanted to hear - with a lot of secrets behind those statements, I hardly see it as a "change that we need", there were many better avenues they could of taken with that game to actually take after EverQuest and draw in a much larger crowd, it would've been a lot easier to make too while still including some new features and modern technology.

On the VG subscriptions, I was also guilty of that with 4 active paid subs, 2 for the majority of the 7 years but that to me wasn't our fault or giving the wrong impression, that was us supporting that game, saying to SOE that we like the game and support it but then using our voices on the forums to give feedback on how it can be improved and what we would like to see happen and showing our disapproval of the management of the game etc. but those voices were ignored and the company went in the wrong direction as they were out of touch with their target audience. If we had of all dropped our subs the game would've been shut down long ago, sending the message that we do not like that type of game, when do do like those games, we just do not support such poor management of those games.

[quote="Kilsin"]
I was not deceitful at all, I was clear in my message that the multi platform side of things is a cancer on our industry and I wish it to fail, they were always a PC gaming company and I wish them well in that area of their business.

No one was working on multi platform games when I made that statement, no games were produced and no staff assigned to any new multi platform area's of the business, so it was not a jab at the staff but rather taking aim at the idea of multi platform as it rarely bodes well for PC gamers. I did not wish the employees any harm, it is the "idea" of the transition that I was taking aim at not the people involved, staff were already going to lose their jobs before they created new divisions to work on the new multi platform games and I hope it fails before any staff are assigned.
[/quote]

Ah okay. I didn't read it that way. I do agree, the multiplatform is not nearly as much of a boon as they're trying to make it out to be. It just ends up being a straitjacket on creativity because of needing to work with the lowest common denominator. My apologies for jumping at you on this piece, it just struck a chord (the original comment about it failing, which I took to be Daybreak failing).

[quote="Kilsin"]
I also never saw EQN as anything other than a lot of - telling people what they wanted to hear - with a lot of secrets behind those statements, I hardly see it as a "change that we need", there were many better avenues they could of taken with that game to actually take after EverQuest and draw in a much larger crowd, it would've been a lot easier to make too while still including some new features and modern technology.
[/quote]

True, there's no doubt a lot of that. And when I say "change that we need" I mean more to the point of getting the heck away from this insistence on end-game focused, theme-park, instanced dungeon game design we see so much of in the MMO space now. It honestly needs to die in a fire.

Truth be told, the biggest things I'm excited for from EQ:N is due to StoryBricks and how they've been billing that as being used. Obviously, only time will tell how things end up but I would be absolutely delighted if EQ:N ends up as a lush, world where quest-hubs are a thing of the past and horizontal/customization is the more important thing than increasing your stats by 5%.

[quote="Kilsin"]
On the VG subscriptions, I was also guilty of that with 4 active paid subs, 2 for the majority of the 7 years but that to me wasn't our fault or giving the wrong impression, that was us supporting that game, saying to SOE that we like the game and support it but then using our voices on the forums to give feedback on how it can be improved and what we would like to see happen and showing our disapproval of the management of the game etc. but those voices were ignored and the company went in the wrong direction as they were out of touch with their target audience. If we had of all dropped our subs the game would've been shut down long ago, sending the message that we do not like that type of game, when do do like those games, we just do not support such poor management of those games.[/quote]
Exactly, and I was in the same boat. It was a shitty situation but it wasn't just VG. It's every other game as well. The market as a whole has been voting with its wallet and saying "We like this direction because we keep supporting it" and no amount of clamouring on the forums can change that (as we learned painfully from VG).

At this point though all we can do is wait and see. I hope the people who were let go find good homes and exciting projects. And while I am less than pleased with how things with Daybreak are going, I hope that they too go in a good direction and maybe stir some change. Same thing with Pantheon.

It's just been a pretty awkward time for MMOs lately and this kind of news is making it even worse.

Here's a list of casualties in case anyone is curious. Found on reddit.

Everquest Franchise
David "Smokejumper" Georgeson, Franchise lead
Eric "Felgon" Smith, Landmark/EQNext producer
Jeffrey Butler (skip to 27:20, in chat), EQN/Landmark creative director
Steve "Moorgard" Danuser, EQNext lead content/story designer
Mark Storer, EQNext programmer
Aaron "Gnobrin" Bisnett, EQ2 artist
Akil "Lyndro" Hooper, EQ2 Designer
"Endymion", EQ2 developer
Michael "Xelgad" Ganz, EQ2 developer
Jeffrey Bard, EQ2 developer
Racheal "Afista" McKenny, EQ2 community manager
Ryan "Rytan" Barker, EQ1 lead designer
Justin "Jansan" Deeb, EQ1 game designer
Adam "Ngreth" Bell, EQ1 developer

Planetside 2
Matthew "Higgles" Higby, creative director *
David Carey, producer
Katherine Anderson, build master
Xander Clauss, level designer
Kevin Moyer, designer/vehicle balance
Taylor Dowell, database/marketplace
Sarah Vu, QA
Ryan Owens (confirmed via reddit PM), QA

H1Z1
Noah Watkins, UI artist
Kelduum Revaan, technical designer
Ruby Opfer, artist
Ryan "codef0rge" Elam, codebase *

DC Universe Online
Ellen Andersen, producer

General Staff
Linda "Brasse" Carlson, Director of community relations
Tiffany "Amnerys" Spence, community manager
Aimee "Ashlanne" Rekoske, community manager
Kyle Manchester, community manager

http://www.reddit.com/r/h1z1/comments/2 ... e_layoffs/

[quote="Zewtastic"]"Endymion", EQ2 developer[/quote]
That name looks very familiar to me. Swore I saw it around these Emu communities, but maybe it was just SOE sites or an imposter.

[quote="John Adams"][quote="Zewtastic"]"Endymion", EQ2 developer[/quote]
That name looks very familiar to me. Swore I saw it around these Emu communities, but maybe it was just SOE sites or an imposter.[/quote]

That reminds me of Jakkals Cleric in VG lol

Yeah, my cleric's name was Endymion. He's one of my main RP characters. I've probably posted screenshots of him around here. Or you might have seen me say stuff in VG's OOC chat, he ended up becoming my most played character because we needed the cleric all the time.