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Druids got somewhere in the region of 40 points and disciple just over 20. Druid points recovered over time. Some of their abilities used quite a few. 10 or more. Starfall used quite a lot and had a cooldown IIRC. Disc points built up during a fight then wore off over time. I can't find any mention of a time frame for how long it took. Someone mentioned if you left autoattack on all the time they stayed full, but tbh I never remember jin being that much of a problem to build up.

[quote="Ratief"][quote="Faux"]Also, don't forget bloodmages got blood union. They could have 5 points and they would clear anytime you changed target or your target died. They had no regen though so that may not be a concern for you.[/quote]

I'm pretty sure that blood union isn't done with class points (same as the bard thing). Class points are the blue bubble to the right of your health/energy/endurance.[/quote]

I wasn't sure if they applied. Due to their nature, they should be entirely handled by the combat logic.

[quote="Moonshadowe"]Druids got somewhere in the region of 40 points and disciple just over 20. Druid points recovered over time. Some of their abilities used quite a few. 10 or more. Starfall used quite a lot and had a cooldown IIRC. Disc points built up during a fight then wore off over time. I can't find any mention of a time frame for how long it took. Someone mentioned if you left autoattack on all the time they stayed full, but tbh I never remember jin being that much of a problem to build up.[/quote]

To be clear, discs and monks both got 21 points of Jin at level 55. I believe they got one added to their total every 5 levels, which would put them starting at level 1 with 10 points. That sounds a bit high to me.

Jin also did not build up inherently by being in combat. Jin regen was added to combat forms though, so that may be why your friend mentioned that autoattack helped? Back in the old days, there was no stance regen rate though, so the longer you spent out of combat, the more you had to build back up when you started again. They changed it with stances so you almost always had max Jin when starting a fight. Here is a general proposal for Monk and Disc Jin.

Level 1: 5 Jin
Level 5: 6 Jin
Level 6: 7 Jin
Level 7: 8 Jin
Level 8: 9 Jin
Level 9: 10 Jin
Level 10: 12 Jin
Level 15: 13 Jin
Level 20: 14 Jin
Level 25: 15 Jin
Level 30: 16 Jin
Level 35: 17 Jin
Level 40: 18 Jin
Level 45: 19 Jin
Level 50: 20 Jin
Level 55: 21 Jin

Regen rate granted by your combat form: 1 point per 6 seconds. That will take just over 2 minutes to go to full by standing around at level 55. Shorter obviously for lower level chars.

Jin decay rate when not in stance: 1 point per 24 seconds.

Lastly, I don't recall ever seeing the decay of Jin when I was in stance, so the way to handle this might be to have regen default to -1 (decay) and then when in stance it changes to 1. If regen ticks every 6 seconds though for Jin, it would drain your Jin really quickly. Its not really a problem though because there is no upside to not being in a combat stance so you'll always have regen on.

The "bard thing", Dance of Blades I think, plus a similar one for mitigation that probably no one ever used, was more or less a passive ability that stacked over time, nothing in particular seemed to trigger it.

Blood Union was not the same kind of points as jin/druids/clerics--you got a certain number of points from certain spells that cast it, which showed as dots along the ring shape of the character icon. But I am pretty sure you could carry surplus points to the next target. Dreadful Countenance does not come under this category at all--the dots also appeared on the ring, but the effect was only on the target and there would be nothing if you switched. If you returned to the first target, it would still be there. Abilities did not give specific amounts of points, and it "went uphill" so to speak.

If monks are like druids--originally had no points regen stance--then it begs the question of emulating sunset classes, or original ones. I know that druid was pretty fundamentally redone, and "points management" kinda got tossed because it was so easy to always have a lot. You were forced to stance dance in order to function. Druid was easier/more powerful at sunset. Previously, you were looking at how much you would use the weakest spell (lightning bolt) to keep some points going.

Monk jin was only increased by certain abilities; being in combat prevented decay.

I definitely used the Turn Undead, basically a nuke spell which, occasionally, was partially resisted.

[quote="Amnath"]
Blood Union was not the same kind of points as jin/druids/clerics--you got a certain number of points from certain spells that cast it, which showed as dots along the ring shape of the character icon. But I am pretty sure you could carry surplus points to the next target.[/quote]

Unless they changed it after the sunset announcement, that's not entirely correct. For Blood Union you gained points from certain spells, but also from being in the "Sanguine" stance you gained 1 point per server tick (which I think was already established was 6 seconds) at the cost of 5% health per tick. Im 90% sure it was 5%. So with a bit of patience, you could begin a big fight with full Union points (which I remember as being 5. Correct me if it was actually 6) and give the mob a really big initial dps blast.
The union points were target specific, did not generate aggro, and Im pretty sure wiped if you switched targets.

I never quite got a BM to endgame, but I did level a couple of them into the mid 40's. One very close to launch, and one about a month before sunset announcement. Thats what I remember from my time playing.

[quote="Glenzig"][quote="Amnath"]
Blood Union was not the same kind of points as jin/druids/clerics--you got a certain number of points from certain spells that cast it, which showed as dots along the ring shape of the character icon. But I am pretty sure you could carry surplus points to the next target.[/quote]

Unless they changed it after the sunset announcement, that's not entirely correct. For Blood Union you gained points from certain spells, but also from being in the "Sanguine" stance you gained 1 point per server tick (which I think was already established was 6 seconds) at the cost of 5% health per tick. Im 90% sure it was 5%. So with a bit of patience, you could begin a big fight with full Union points (which I remember as being 5. Correct me if it was actually 6) and give the mob a really big initial dps blast.
The union points were target specific, did not generate aggro, and Im pretty sure wiped if you switched targets.

I never quite got a BM to endgame, but I did level a couple of them into the mid 40's. One very close to launch, and one about a month before sunset announcement. Thats what I remember from my time playing.[/quote]

As much as I played my BM this sounds the most correct, but I am not 100% certain on that and it makes me sad

[quote="Apaelias"][quote="Glenzig"][quote="Amnath"]
Blood Union was not the same kind of points as jin/druids/clerics--you got a certain number of points from certain spells that cast it, which showed as dots along the ring shape of the character icon. But I am pretty sure you could carry surplus points to the next target.[/quote]

Unless they changed it after the sunset announcement, that's not entirely correct. For Blood Union you gained points from certain spells, but also from being in the "Sanguine" stance you gained 1 point per server tick (which I think was already established was 6 seconds) at the cost of 5% health per tick. Im 90% sure it was 5%. So with a bit of patience, you could begin a big fight with full Union points (which I remember as being 5. Correct me if it was actually 6) and give the mob a really big initial dps blast.
The union points were target specific, did not generate aggro, and Im pretty sure wiped if you switched targets.

I never quite got a BM to endgame, but I did level a couple of them into the mid 40's. One very close to launch, and one about a month before sunset announcement. Thats what I remember from my time playing.[/quote]

As much as I played my BM this sounds the most correct, but I am not 100% certain on that and it makes me sad [/quote]

I know. It hurt my poor little brain trying to remember that much. I never thought I could forget so much about VG. Very sad indeed.

Well, I meant it was not the same as "Class Points" being digits in a particular bubble in the icon. Blood Union and Dreadful Countenance both were along the ring, resembling mob's difficulty dots.

You all are of course true about the stance--that had totally slipped my mind :/ It still leaves Dreadful Countenance in an undefined state. It was more of a case where, Vexing Strike would give you level one, but at three or four, it would probably decay faster than you could hit with it, since it would probably take four Vexing Strikes to gain another level. Blood Union spells that gave you a point just always gave you a point. It could be that my bad memory about the stance is why I'm thinking points stay on you. I believe there was a spell that did no damage, but gained points, and I can't remember if it pulled stuff.

If we're trying to program the digit-bubble, blood mage is a derail anyway--but it is a big difference, at least for druid, between emulating the "majority of VG" class, and the 2013 overhaul. I can't really say if the other points classes were seriously changed, but if so, it's probably best to bring up the point early on.

I thought maybe this could help refresh memories. This blood mage is only level 37, but maybe it would give an idea. Youtube video of a bloodmage being played.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_8-h7A8li-U

When you start working on this again Faux.

Druid: Phenomena Points
Level 1 20 points
Gain 1 point per level up to level 40 for a max of 60
Regen 2 per minute

Paladins: Virtue Points
25 points total regen 1 per minute

Cleric: Turning Attempts
Level 1 1 point
Gain 1 at level 2,3,4,5,6 for a total of 6
Regen 1 every 100 minutes

Monk: Jin
Certain stances can also generate Jin even outside of combat otherwise jin gained by combat abilities.

Bard: Combat Form
viewtopic.php?f=65&t=2146&p=19124&hilit=point#p19124

Blood Mage: Blood Union
viewtopic.php?f=65&t=2146&p=19124&hilit=point#p19124