Could New Telon be a progression server?
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Could New Telon be a progression server?
I think it would be amazing to have a legit VG launch experience!!
A lot of the lvl 50 content was trivialized by game updates which increased the lvl cap to 55 and added new encounters. It would be a shame to rebuild this world and not experience all of the classic end-game content during a time when it was relevant to the overall game design. Im talking about APW, ToT, RI, OT, NN, Swamp Armor, and a few great overland encounters.
A lot of my best VG memories are during the time when those areas were considered end-game (lvl 50 cap). This was a time before most of the population quit out of boredom and repeated false promises of new raid content. All of these dungeons had well thought-out quest lines and raid encounters that were great for guild and group fun. APW raid dungeon took months to finally kill Kotasoth (the boss dragon). I think it would be somewhat of a waste not to give the lvl 50 content at least 6mos-1yr to shine and let players get re-acquainted with the game. Also people wont be lost upon hitting lvl 50 and suddenly doing content that was designed for raid-geared lvl 50's, not fresh lvl 50s. This goes for all 3 spheres as well.
Wouldn't it be great to experience this content again during a time when everybody[/i] cares about it? Get fully geared up before the lvl 55 game updates are released so we can stretch out the VG experience and truly see it for all that it was? Releasing New Telon with the post-50 updates would make a lot of the game content trivial upon release. This would not be right since all the players are being knocked back to classic, launch-day status. I think it would be more fun if the game were at launch-day status, too. Only without the bugs, lag, and add in all the lvl 50 raid content. Y'know, the way it should have been released in 2007.
These are just my thoughts. Let me know what others think.
A lot of the lvl 50 content was trivialized by game updates which increased the lvl cap to 55 and added new encounters. It would be a shame to rebuild this world and not experience all of the classic end-game content during a time when it was relevant to the overall game design. Im talking about APW, ToT, RI, OT, NN, Swamp Armor, and a few great overland encounters.
A lot of my best VG memories are during the time when those areas were considered end-game (lvl 50 cap). This was a time before most of the population quit out of boredom and repeated false promises of new raid content. All of these dungeons had well thought-out quest lines and raid encounters that were great for guild and group fun. APW raid dungeon took months to finally kill Kotasoth (the boss dragon). I think it would be somewhat of a waste not to give the lvl 50 content at least 6mos-1yr to shine and let players get re-acquainted with the game. Also people wont be lost upon hitting lvl 50 and suddenly doing content that was designed for raid-geared lvl 50's, not fresh lvl 50s. This goes for all 3 spheres as well.
Wouldn't it be great to experience this content again during a time when everybody[/i] cares about it? Get fully geared up before the lvl 55 game updates are released so we can stretch out the VG experience and truly see it for all that it was? Releasing New Telon with the post-50 updates would make a lot of the game content trivial upon release. This would not be right since all the players are being knocked back to classic, launch-day status. I think it would be more fun if the game were at launch-day status, too. Only without the bugs, lag, and add in all the lvl 50 raid content. Y'know, the way it should have been released in 2007.
These are just my thoughts. Let me know what others think.
Re: Could New Telon be a progression server?
I agree with this completely. Those end-game areas you mentioned are what I remember best about Vanguard. It would be a disgrace to the game if players simply skipped those, thinking "what's the point?" I don't know that there is an easy solution to it, since I'm sure it's not a trivial thing to remove all 51+ content (or maybe the level cap just stays at 50 and the content can be out there, ready for the level cap increase when ready..not sure). However, I quit the game shortly before the first level cap increase, so I may be a bit biased there, as I'm not really familiar with a lot of post-50 content.
Regardless, this is something that I would like to see, in one form or another. I think every player deserves the satisfaction of getting their swamp armor set pieces, flipping the temples in ToT, struggling through the maze of NN, fighting their way through RI, killing Kotasoth in APW, etc. That being said, some of these questlines are in DIRE need of tweaks to limit some of the grindiness, IMO, as some of that does NOT hold fond memories from my end.. but that's probably a separate discussion.
Regardless, this is something that I would like to see, in one form or another. I think every player deserves the satisfaction of getting their swamp armor set pieces, flipping the temples in ToT, struggling through the maze of NN, fighting their way through RI, killing Kotasoth in APW, etc. That being said, some of these questlines are in DIRE need of tweaks to limit some of the grindiness, IMO, as some of that does NOT hold fond memories from my end.. but that's probably a separate discussion.
Re: Could New Telon be a progression server?
I think there are lots of us who think somewhat similarily. There are a few of us cranky vets who would love to see the 51+ removed and the content made horizontal in its scope. But I think I recall New Telon being planned as a somewhat faithful rendition of live, someone please correct me if im wrong.
Regardless you will be able to play on altertative ruleset servers. I for one (When the client is mature enough) will be compiling a fairly early style gameplay server.
Regardless you will be able to play on altertative ruleset servers. I for one (When the client is mature enough) will be compiling a fairly early style gameplay server.
Re: Could New Telon be a progression server?
I don't think the 51+ stuff should be removed completely (even tho a lot of it is horse crap compared to pre-51 content), but I think New Telon should somewhat mimic the release of content on live. At least mimic the good parts. No late content, no buggy content, no lies about content release, no unnecessary changes that made more ppl mad than happy...stuff like that.
Ideally it would go like this:
Release the game lvl capped at 50 and no access to the 51+ areas, content or quest lines.
Wait for a good bulk of population to complete the lvl 50 end-game. A reasonable amount of time that let's people enjoy it thoroughly, but not get too bored.
Then, release the lvl 51+ content
There would be a few more steps that this as there were some overland mobs added over a couple years, but that's just a general guideline.
This is very similar to Project 1999 emulator except Vanguard would eventually be entirely released as it was on live and not just a fraction of it's overall content.
This allows people to enjoy the game in the same chronological manner as they did on live. It also allows for a more complete enjoyment of VG and doesn't trivialize anything right off the bat. Even within the separate pools of content, there would be a logical order in which to complete the content if you wanted to get geared up properly and not wipe thousands of times.
I do not know anything about building a game or coding so Im not sure what this would require in that aspect, or if it's even possible. If I sound completely ridiculous Im sorry and please let me know.
Ideally it would go like this:
Release the game lvl capped at 50 and no access to the 51+ areas, content or quest lines.
Wait for a good bulk of population to complete the lvl 50 end-game. A reasonable amount of time that let's people enjoy it thoroughly, but not get too bored.
Then, release the lvl 51+ content
There would be a few more steps that this as there were some overland mobs added over a couple years, but that's just a general guideline.
This is very similar to Project 1999 emulator except Vanguard would eventually be entirely released as it was on live and not just a fraction of it's overall content.
This allows people to enjoy the game in the same chronological manner as they did on live. It also allows for a more complete enjoyment of VG and doesn't trivialize anything right off the bat. Even within the separate pools of content, there would be a logical order in which to complete the content if you wanted to get geared up properly and not wipe thousands of times.
I do not know anything about building a game or coding so Im not sure what this would require in that aspect, or if it's even possible. If I sound completely ridiculous Im sorry and please let me know.
Re: Could New Telon be a progression server?
Has it always been the plan to release content in the same chronological order as it was on live, or was it just to restore it to the live state of July 31, 2014 before the shutdown??
Re: Could New Telon be a progression server?
[quote="Lamprey"]I don't think the 51+ stuff should be removed completely (even tho a lot of it is horse crap compared to pre-51 content), but I think New Telon should somewhat mimic the release of content on live. At least mimic the good parts. No late content, no buggy content, no lies about content release, no unnecessary changes that made more ppl mad than happy...stuff like that.[/quote]
I think I was more suggesting rather than a removal of content, a removal of 51+ level spread. The content can easily be made horizontal in scope, with systems in place that would make you want to visit areas for things. ie) one piece of legendary or epic gear in each locale, that requires a hefty involved quest chain to get. Like MH for Legs, PoTA for chest etc. that way the content is not trivialized, and meaningless grind isn't introduced just for the sake of grind. The addition of 51+ just made the game unbalanced, and was only there to string along vets with mindnumbing grind to keep subs in place, at least that's my opinion. So no, keep the content for sure. just drop the fluff levels.
I seem to recall someone saying that new Telon was supposed to be a mirror of final live, with some tweaks implemented for missing content that wasn't collected, or limitations of the emulator, plus some quality of life changes. I could be wrong. I'm pretty sure deviation from that was supposed to be for individual server setups, and people could choose where to play when the client was mature enough. Likely someone will make a progression server, a PvP server, a vanilla server etc.
I think I was more suggesting rather than a removal of content, a removal of 51+ level spread. The content can easily be made horizontal in scope, with systems in place that would make you want to visit areas for things. ie) one piece of legendary or epic gear in each locale, that requires a hefty involved quest chain to get. Like MH for Legs, PoTA for chest etc. that way the content is not trivialized, and meaningless grind isn't introduced just for the sake of grind. The addition of 51+ just made the game unbalanced, and was only there to string along vets with mindnumbing grind to keep subs in place, at least that's my opinion. So no, keep the content for sure. just drop the fluff levels.
I seem to recall someone saying that new Telon was supposed to be a mirror of final live, with some tweaks implemented for missing content that wasn't collected, or limitations of the emulator, plus some quality of life changes. I could be wrong. I'm pretty sure deviation from that was supposed to be for individual server setups, and people could choose where to play when the client was mature enough. Likely someone will make a progression server, a PvP server, a vanilla server etc.
Re: Could New Telon be a progression server?
[quote="Lamprey"]Has it always been the plan to release content in the same chronological order as it was on live, or was it just to restore it to the live state of July 31, 2014 before the shutdown??[/quote]
It will by live state to start. However, as others have said, most people would like it pre-55 increase. This can easily be done by just setting the level cap at 50. From there, we can either adjust all 51+ content/gear to 50 or find some other way to keep the integrity of the level 50 zones/raids. I think most level 50 gear could be adjusted to allow tiered content.
Example:
Tier 1: RI, ToT, NN, Swamp, Magi Hold (lower to 50 content)
Tier 2: APW/Griffon
Tier 3: SoD (get rid of the grind)/Pantheon
Tier 4: Stiirhad/CoW/Pankor Zhi
Regarding multiple server rulesets, nearing the end of completion of the emulator (replicating live edition), the community needs to come together and decide on ONE ruleset and world we can all mostly agree upon. Having more than one (two tops) server will spread everyone too thin in my opinion. I've stated I would love to get rid of the rifts, but I know it isn't viable due to the population we will likely have when this emulator is completed. Everyone will need to compromise to some extent to make this project work.
It will by live state to start. However, as others have said, most people would like it pre-55 increase. This can easily be done by just setting the level cap at 50. From there, we can either adjust all 51+ content/gear to 50 or find some other way to keep the integrity of the level 50 zones/raids. I think most level 50 gear could be adjusted to allow tiered content.
Example:
Tier 1: RI, ToT, NN, Swamp, Magi Hold (lower to 50 content)
Tier 2: APW/Griffon
Tier 3: SoD (get rid of the grind)/Pantheon
Tier 4: Stiirhad/CoW/Pankor Zhi
Regarding multiple server rulesets, nearing the end of completion of the emulator (replicating live edition), the community needs to come together and decide on ONE ruleset and world we can all mostly agree upon. Having more than one (two tops) server will spread everyone too thin in my opinion. I've stated I would love to get rid of the rifts, but I know it isn't viable due to the population we will likely have when this emulator is completed. Everyone will need to compromise to some extent to make this project work.
Re: Could New Telon be a progression server?
There are already full gearsets for lvl 50. I think scaling down lvl 55 content would be wrong. I think we should just leave it out of the game completely for a few months or even a year. Just leave the game in its 1-50 state, then release all 51+ content together. It would naturally tier itself because it would be too difficult to do griffon quest without APW gear, for example.
Scaling down lvl 51+ gear and content would be weird. you would be adding types of stats that didn't even exist pre-51 on gear. Also rune slots. It would create an overabundance of gear and throw off the intended itemization that balances the game and classes. Messing with that could get messy.
Scaling down lvl 51+ gear and content would be weird. you would be adding types of stats that didn't even exist pre-51 on gear. Also rune slots. It would create an overabundance of gear and throw off the intended itemization that balances the game and classes. Messing with that could get messy.
Re: Could New Telon be a progression server?
[quote="Lamprey"]There are already full gearsets for lvl 50. I think scaling down lvl 55 content would be wrong. I think we should just leave it out of the game completely for a few months or even a year. Just leave the game in its 1-50 state, then release all 51+ content together. It would naturally tier itself because it would be too difficult to do griffon quest without APW gear, for example.
Scaling down lvl 51+ gear and content would be weird. you would be adding types of stats that didn't even exist pre-51 on gear. Also rune slots. It would create an overabundance of gear and throw off the intended itemization that balances the game and classes. Messing with that could get messy.[/quote]
I disagree. Raising the level cap makes all 50 content useless. I despise level cap increases for this reason alone.
Re-itemizing and re-working the gear stats would be more ideal. If it were my game, everyone should just forget what level 51+ gear was like now, because to me, the stats on them were just ridiculous. The 51+ gear would be completely reworked. Look at APW gear stats. Now look at Pantheon gear stats (with runes). The jump in stats is insane. It should be toned back to allow a tiered progression.
Scaling down lvl 51+ gear and content would be weird. you would be adding types of stats that didn't even exist pre-51 on gear. Also rune slots. It would create an overabundance of gear and throw off the intended itemization that balances the game and classes. Messing with that could get messy.[/quote]
I disagree. Raising the level cap makes all 50 content useless. I despise level cap increases for this reason alone.
Re-itemizing and re-working the gear stats would be more ideal. If it were my game, everyone should just forget what level 51+ gear was like now, because to me, the stats on them were just ridiculous. The 51+ gear would be completely reworked. Look at APW gear stats. Now look at Pantheon gear stats (with runes). The jump in stats is insane. It should be toned back to allow a tiered progression.
Re: Could New Telon be a progression server?
Aside from a Progression Server (which, btw, is not the greatest idea. It serves it's purpose to players who play during the time of the progression, but fails the same way as joining a "Current" server would for new players), some MMOs rework old content for exactly this purpose, implement a system whereby always making this type of content viable for character progression.
World of Warcraft does this with Heroic instances (I don't know about Raid Content). They have reworked some old content to become higher level.
EQ did this with Fabled content.
EQ2 took a unique approach, and I think it's a very good idea (although I think they could have done it a little better). With their AA, killing Unique/Boss spawns rewards AA experience ONLY if you are within the appropriate level range. Pairing this with Mentoring and whatever their service is that lowers your level in exchange for gold means that people have a really good reason to experience EVERYTHING. My problem with this is that scaled-down high levels are still too powerful - a lot of content is too trivial.
Something that a person could do with an Emu is set a level cap, and re-stat all encounters in Raid level content to be challenging for that level cap. Gear would be tricky, but it's all stored in a database, so not undoable.
World of Warcraft does this with Heroic instances (I don't know about Raid Content). They have reworked some old content to become higher level.
EQ did this with Fabled content.
EQ2 took a unique approach, and I think it's a very good idea (although I think they could have done it a little better). With their AA, killing Unique/Boss spawns rewards AA experience ONLY if you are within the appropriate level range. Pairing this with Mentoring and whatever their service is that lowers your level in exchange for gold means that people have a really good reason to experience EVERYTHING. My problem with this is that scaled-down high levels are still too powerful - a lot of content is too trivial.
Something that a person could do with an Emu is set a level cap, and re-stat all encounters in Raid level content to be challenging for that level cap. Gear would be tricky, but it's all stored in a database, so not undoable.