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Don't Add Pantheon

Posted: Thu Nov 15, 2018 3:52 pm
by Ctulu
I know this is likely a ways off but I'm curious who else feels that Vanguard was better before PotA came out and that the expansion is the direct cause of the game's failure. I remember server populations dropping dramatically in the months after PotA release, I personally also left the game, and shortly thereafter the server was all but barren. The game was far more balanced and entertaining before that expansion. PotA was a boring beige tomb and made almost all other content irrelevant for end game players. No one even bothered with APW gear anymore and because much of the PotA content was for single groups it basically killed the raid scene. They should've added new raid targets, maybe a few new dungeons and new crafting recipes with the level cap increase but instead we got the boring hole in the ground that was PotA.

I'd like to see all content up to PotA released, but not PotA itself. Perhaps when that time comes the PotA armor could be added as crafted armor and the mats could be obtainable from current raid targets. This would give both the raiders and crafters something for the endgame as well as keep the awesome raid encounters and challenging mechanics relevant. Though I would rather see custom content than PotA content quite honestly.

Please let me know what you all think

Re: Don't Add Pantheon

Posted: Thu Nov 15, 2018 4:16 pm
by Jakkal
I mean, yes, this is a ways off, but our current plan is the following:
1. Restore existing Strand of the Ancients Pantheon to the mid 20's version.
2. Finish all existing 1-50 content.
3. Use copy of POTA's "dungeon" that we found to replace 55 POTA. Fix POTA. Add HOSS.

While the POTA release was a huge disappointment, it certainly didn't kill the game. And people didn't stop doing APW. Infact for any guild that wanted to do POTA on their own, they had to do APW first. POTA T1 trials weren't possible for a group to complete in swamp armor or less. You might be able to walk a poorly geared character through POTA T1 trials if the rest of the group was well geared, but if the entire guild is in a little APW and mostly swamp, it wasn't possible. This was my guild and our experience, and what we heard from other players at the time.

And even after POTA was released, people were doing APW like crazy. There were lots of guilds hitting it, and lots of PUGs that were absolutely full up everytime they ran through. Again, my guild was one of these groups, and we also ran special PUG raids through APW.

POTA opened up the doors to the Magi Hold raid mobs. You couldn't do them unless you were POTA geared. So it's not like POTA was the end all be all. It was a step up to the next step.

The one thing about POTA that sucked more than anything else was the GRIND. And it was a ridiculous grind that I won't go into. T1 trials were fun. T2 and T3 were terrible. And Epic weapons didn't even require you be present. (You just stood there while a sorc in KDQ did all the work).

If we change anything about POTA, it will be this grind. I'd like to make it more interesting, less of a time and money sink, and make players feel like they earned it.

As far as crafting, I doubt we'll touch it. But crafting was still necessary up to the very end game stuff. You even needed crafters for POTA gear, epics, and augments.

I know it's a kneejerk to hate on POTA, but it really wasn't that bad. Poorly implemented, yes, but it wasn't that bad. If anything made people leave in droves, it was the XP grind to 55, which they nerfed a few years later and brought more content to make it less painful - which is we're working with now.

Re: Don't Add Pantheon

Posted: Thu Nov 15, 2018 4:41 pm
by Ctulu
My guild stopped doing APW entirely. Perhaps that was just relevant to the group of players I was with. Getting T3 gear seemed impossible, and that was one of the biggest complaints so I agree with you for sure. These are more the issues I had with PotA though it did mark the decline in server population that continued until the game had such a low player base they shut it down completely, which is why I don't want to see the same thing happen again here. Sounds though like you have plans to balance things, which is what is really needed.

As far as crafting goes, you had said:
Jakkal wrote: Fri Jul 31, 2015 7:53 am It wasn't just that. Crafted gear used to be comparable to the best equipment you could get for any level range. (such as Hunter's League) but at some point, they nerfed the crafted gear so it wasn't quite as good as the adventured gear.
What I was talking about was going back to the pre-nerfed values. I understand crafting is relevant and necessary but having been a crafter in many games, making mats for quests and augment items somehow isn't quite as satisfying as crafting a set of armor or new weapons. I just think it should be on par with adventured gear at the level it was intended for as well as craftable at that level. Why even have armorsmithing in a game if no one wears forged armor, or weaponsmithing if no one would use the weapons you craft?

Re: Don't Add Pantheon

Posted: Thu Nov 15, 2018 4:58 pm
by Jakkal
Yeah I realize that, but we're not going to change the stats on the currently existing crafted gear. If that's ever done, it's a long ways off. We're just using VG's own attempts at balance here.

If we were to bump the stats, we'd have to reduce the number of special mats, making them harder to get. This is why crafted gear is 'lesser' to adventuring gear, because it's easy to get the mats for crafting gear, but not as easy to get the adventuring gear. (I realize this is going to open people up to argue but the same at-level comparison holds).

Re: Don't Add Pantheon

Posted: Mon Mar 04, 2019 5:49 am
by Myyn
I know this is a old post but I enjoyed POTA in its all, the grind I found was relative since running in circles on a sorc for Augs gave the by product of XP for others and POTA needed items.

I don't think it killed APW since some of APW was still needed for certain items/clickies and ofc killing the dragon for a wyvern :)

Some of the grind could be dumbed down as in the number of times needed to do the SoD runs needed for slivers ect but once a guild has a core group of players who don't mind helping others new members gained T3 and Epics a lot faster, even faster when they picked Light Side Sisters :) As for the money sink it was a OUCH at times.