Rez Sick
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Re: Rez Sick
VG actually offered extra XP for groups in a weird way.
For example: If I solo a mob, let's say it gives me 100xp. If I group with a single friend, we would both get say, 75 XP (less than if I were solo, but it wasn't just 50 for me and 50 for them). If I group with 3 people, I think it would be something like 50 XP for all of us.
So you'd technically get less XP, but they added on more XP to the kill so it wasn't a directly (Mob's Solo XP)/(# of players in group)
If that makes sense.
For example: If I solo a mob, let's say it gives me 100xp. If I group with a single friend, we would both get say, 75 XP (less than if I were solo, but it wasn't just 50 for me and 50 for them). If I group with 3 people, I think it would be something like 50 XP for all of us.
So you'd technically get less XP, but they added on more XP to the kill so it wasn't a directly (Mob's Solo XP)/(# of players in group)
If that makes sense.
Re: Rez Sick
[quote="Kilsin"]at low levels was stuff all.[/quote]
My first experience with rez sickness was at low levels. I was playing a level 12 psi, and I was pretty well equipped (no level 12 was anything but pretty well equipped after the F2P re-itemization). I was killing some 2-dot level 11 mobs, when I died. No biggie, I thought. I'll just play through this rez sickness. The next fight I had resists on 2 of 4 spells (resists were very rare for my psionicists), and I died quite quickly. I didn't realize rez sickness was cumulative, so I thought I'd just been unlucky. In the next fight I didn't land a single spell and died again, and the same for the next fight. That's when I decided to sit out rez sickness. Maybe it doesn't make a big difference to a melee in a group, but it was a killer to a soloing psi.
You don't need rez sickness to stop a soloing psionicist from zerging mobs. In fact, I don't see a reason to stop anyone from zerging outside a raid. So, if it turns out we need rez sickness, maybe it could be limited to raid participants.
My first experience with rez sickness was at low levels. I was playing a level 12 psi, and I was pretty well equipped (no level 12 was anything but pretty well equipped after the F2P re-itemization). I was killing some 2-dot level 11 mobs, when I died. No biggie, I thought. I'll just play through this rez sickness. The next fight I had resists on 2 of 4 spells (resists were very rare for my psionicists), and I died quite quickly. I didn't realize rez sickness was cumulative, so I thought I'd just been unlucky. In the next fight I didn't land a single spell and died again, and the same for the next fight. That's when I decided to sit out rez sickness. Maybe it doesn't make a big difference to a melee in a group, but it was a killer to a soloing psi.
You don't need rez sickness to stop a soloing psionicist from zerging mobs. In fact, I don't see a reason to stop anyone from zerging outside a raid. So, if it turns out we need rez sickness, maybe it could be limited to raid participants.
Re: Rez Sick
I feel like XP loss + gear breaking is probably good enough for lowbies levelling. Adding a monetary cost (Gear breaking) encourages people to go out and kill stuff for trash loot to pay it off). There's also XP debt for people that just leveled and then died (Where their XP goes into the red). All of these punish the player sufficiently without making them stop playing (it actually encourages more play which I think is important).
I do think they should be encouraged to get their tombstones back as well, by rewarding them some of the lost XP (Not all of it) if they can get to their tombstones.
I do think they should be encouraged to get their tombstones back as well, by rewarding them some of the lost XP (Not all of it) if they can get to their tombstones.
Re: Rez Sick
Agree with Kilsin here. There are exceptions to every situation, but in general, rez sickness didn't cause you to sit on your thumb - you were simply less effective for a short period of time, and it piled on the more you died. I played a cleric all the time and it didn't stop me from healing. Maybe I was less effective in my duties, but I didn't have to sit on my thumb for 5 mins.
I think taking away rez sickness is a bad idea. If there was no rez sickness, a full raid can just continue where it left off after deaths w/o any penalties or additional challenge in the encounter and that completely changes the dynamic of the game. Maybe I'm naive, but it's that zerging? Something we want to avoid? I also don't see how the population of the server is at all related...
Seems to me that most people just want it gone because it was an inconvenience. Maybe tweaking rez sickness instead is better than just removing it? Having only an XP penalty and TS doesn't seem adequate to me. Most of the time, you either got rezzed or summoned your TS at an altar (which only gave an XP debt anyhow), and if you don't lose your level in XP, who cares? Unless you significantly changed the XP penalty and made you lose levels, then XP debt wasn't much of a deterrent.
XP debt - negligible
TS - negligible (except maybe if you are soloing)
Money sink (broken armor, etc.) - negligible
Rez sickness - had an immediate impact
I know a lot of you won't agree with me, and that's fine! This is just my 2cp.
I think taking away rez sickness is a bad idea. If there was no rez sickness, a full raid can just continue where it left off after deaths w/o any penalties or additional challenge in the encounter and that completely changes the dynamic of the game. Maybe I'm naive, but it's that zerging? Something we want to avoid? I also don't see how the population of the server is at all related...
Seems to me that most people just want it gone because it was an inconvenience. Maybe tweaking rez sickness instead is better than just removing it? Having only an XP penalty and TS doesn't seem adequate to me. Most of the time, you either got rezzed or summoned your TS at an altar (which only gave an XP debt anyhow), and if you don't lose your level in XP, who cares? Unless you significantly changed the XP penalty and made you lose levels, then XP debt wasn't much of a deterrent.
XP debt - negligible
TS - negligible (except maybe if you are soloing)
Money sink (broken armor, etc.) - negligible
Rez sickness - had an immediate impact
I know a lot of you won't agree with me, and that's fine! This is just my 2cp.
Haiku is easy -
But sometimes it makes no sense.
Refridgerator.
But sometimes it makes no sense.
Refridgerator.
Re: Rez Sick
Well, every raid I've ever been on, if a key member, such as MT had rez sick, we waited. We always waited. Which is why it wasn't much of a punishment at all, it was a time sink, which is why I felt it wasn't effective as a deterrent. Non raiders also always waited, because that's easier. And let's face it, the players are going to do what's easier.
Though reading the replies I realize that there's a disparity between classes and how they experience Rez Sick. For casters, it was a lot more devastating. For my cleric, disc and paladin, I did pretty much ignore it, it didn't do much to my characters. That in itself means Rez Sick too is negligible to some classes.
So it seems to me that if we decide to keep a rez sick, it needs to be equal across the board in what it does to a character despite gear and class.
The *original* VG punishment was that you lost all your gear to your tombstone, unless you Soulbind it. Now *That* made it EXTREMELY challenging, and still encouraged people to play. Rez sick is very negligible compared to that. This is the one I liked the best because you really had to work to get that tombstone back, especially if you were soloing.
Though reading the replies I realize that there's a disparity between classes and how they experience Rez Sick. For casters, it was a lot more devastating. For my cleric, disc and paladin, I did pretty much ignore it, it didn't do much to my characters. That in itself means Rez Sick too is negligible to some classes.
So it seems to me that if we decide to keep a rez sick, it needs to be equal across the board in what it does to a character despite gear and class.
The *original* VG punishment was that you lost all your gear to your tombstone, unless you Soulbind it. Now *That* made it EXTREMELY challenging, and still encouraged people to play. Rez sick is very negligible compared to that. This is the one I liked the best because you really had to work to get that tombstone back, especially if you were soloing.
Re: Rez Sick
Well on plenty of raids I've been on, MT would die and a secondary would take over. This sounds more like a strat discussion for another topic.
Should rez sickness persist in some fashion, the inequality across classes is clearly something we should address.
Agree completely with the soulbound items! Not a huge fan of everything being soulbound - should have to get back to corpse to loot it.
Speaking of which, eq-style corpses > TS.
Should rez sickness persist in some fashion, the inequality across classes is clearly something we should address.
Agree completely with the soulbound items! Not a huge fan of everything being soulbound - should have to get back to corpse to loot it.
Speaking of which, eq-style corpses > TS.
Haiku is easy -
But sometimes it makes no sense.
Refridgerator.
But sometimes it makes no sense.
Refridgerator.
Re: Rez Sick
[quote="Moldew"]I know a lot of you won't agree with me, and that's fine! This is just my 2cp.[/quote]
LOL, Moldew. You are right. I disagree with just about everything you said.
XP debt - Huge. Losing XP (even if it goes into debt rather than de-leveling) is about the worst thing that can happen to you if you are trying to level. I'll agree that if you're max level, it doesn't matter, and a lot of people spent a lot of time in Vanguard at max level. The solution seems simple: XP debt below max level, level loss at max level (however, even at max level I think XP debt would be fine so long as people believed the level cap was going to be raised eventually; in VG we knew it wasn't, so no one cared -- in any case, there were potions for that if it ever mattered).
TS - significant any time you actually left a tombstone. If someone is there to rez you, you don't need a TS. If there is no live rezzer, getting your tombstone back was a big deal, so long as the penalty for summoning it at an alter is big enough.
Money sink (broken armor, etc.) - agreed. The cost was pretty trivial. That could be fixed though.
Rez sickness - had an immediate impact on low level characters, because it caused me to stop playing the game until it went away. IMO, that's a bad impact. However, on my raiders, it was pretty negligible since it wore off while rebuffing and setting up for the next fight. That's backwards -- a crippling effect on lower-level characters (especially casters) and minimal effect on the people it was supposedly designed to affect. I don't care about the inconvenience. I care that I couldn't play my character until the rez sickness went away.
LOL, Moldew. You are right. I disagree with just about everything you said.
XP debt - Huge. Losing XP (even if it goes into debt rather than de-leveling) is about the worst thing that can happen to you if you are trying to level. I'll agree that if you're max level, it doesn't matter, and a lot of people spent a lot of time in Vanguard at max level. The solution seems simple: XP debt below max level, level loss at max level (however, even at max level I think XP debt would be fine so long as people believed the level cap was going to be raised eventually; in VG we knew it wasn't, so no one cared -- in any case, there were potions for that if it ever mattered).
TS - significant any time you actually left a tombstone. If someone is there to rez you, you don't need a TS. If there is no live rezzer, getting your tombstone back was a big deal, so long as the penalty for summoning it at an alter is big enough.
Money sink (broken armor, etc.) - agreed. The cost was pretty trivial. That could be fixed though.
Rez sickness - had an immediate impact on low level characters, because it caused me to stop playing the game until it went away. IMO, that's a bad impact. However, on my raiders, it was pretty negligible since it wore off while rebuffing and setting up for the next fight. That's backwards -- a crippling effect on lower-level characters (especially casters) and minimal effect on the people it was supposedly designed to affect. I don't care about the inconvenience. I care that I couldn't play my character until the rez sickness went away.
Re: Rez Sick
[quote="Moldew"]Speaking of which, eq-style corpses > TS. [/quote]
How are they different? I thought the tombstone was just a graphic decision to take the load off the client when there were a lot of dead bodies lying around. Instead of rendering a lot of complex graphics, the client just has to render a simple graphic repeatedly.
How are they different? I thought the tombstone was just a graphic decision to take the load off the client when there were a lot of dead bodies lying around. Instead of rendering a lot of complex graphics, the client just has to render a simple graphic repeatedly.
Re: Rez Sick
Appreciate the candidacy!
XP - still don't see it. The XP loss/debt is relative to your level. If you don't lose your level, what's the purpose? So that you can waste more time getting the XP back? That seems way more of a TIME sink to me. Sure, you can still play to get that XP back, but if rez sickness can be adjusted, you can still play too, and that only takes 5 mins.
TS - think we're not really in big disagreement here. How often are you w/o a rezzer handy? Even so, you always reappear at an altar, so you could summon your TS and take the XP hit. Again, another TIME sink if it's XP only.
Money - great, we agree!
Rez sickness - again, I never said it was perfect, because it was clearly worse for some and would need to be adjusted accordingly. However, it was the only thing that had an immediate impact. After all, you just died...
eq-style corpse > TS - suppose I was really referring to the nonexistence of soulbound items and not being able to just summon your corpse. Not about what graphic was being used for it...
XP - still don't see it. The XP loss/debt is relative to your level. If you don't lose your level, what's the purpose? So that you can waste more time getting the XP back? That seems way more of a TIME sink to me. Sure, you can still play to get that XP back, but if rez sickness can be adjusted, you can still play too, and that only takes 5 mins.
TS - think we're not really in big disagreement here. How often are you w/o a rezzer handy? Even so, you always reappear at an altar, so you could summon your TS and take the XP hit. Again, another TIME sink if it's XP only.
Money - great, we agree!
Rez sickness - again, I never said it was perfect, because it was clearly worse for some and would need to be adjusted accordingly. However, it was the only thing that had an immediate impact. After all, you just died...
eq-style corpse > TS - suppose I was really referring to the nonexistence of soulbound items and not being able to just summon your corpse. Not about what graphic was being used for it...
Haiku is easy -
But sometimes it makes no sense.
Refridgerator.
But sometimes it makes no sense.
Refridgerator.
Re: Rez Sick
EQ Style death and corpse being left was another big contributing factor in making better group players and fostering community. Need to get back to your corpse and gear, well better have bunch of good friends, good guild or be friends with people in the zone (reputation). EQ had plenty of systems that sneakily forced the player base to work together.