Update Notes 8/9/2013

Discussion in 'Test Server' started by TLoch, Aug 9, 2013.

  1. Gresteh Active Member

    Thanks for the detailed explanation, now i understand it. Just one thing, if the Griffon necklace (and tacticians) behave like regular buffs the tooltip should be changed to reflect that. I know, it's a minor thing, but changing it to 15% rather than +15 would make it more understandable. In the past the +speed (buffs and items) stacked multiplicatively with the % buffs so it made sense to display it as +15 but given that is now considered a regular buff the tooltip should be changed to 15%. I know it's low priority but in my opinion it should be changed to reflect the new behavior and avoid confusion.

    I've tested it a little and it looks nice, i havent had time to do tests with stacking and speeds but so far now it looks really nice, we have our speed back! I'll try to do more tests later today.
  2. Gresteh Active Member

    Ok, i've done several more tests and i've seen a few things:

    Buff stacking: right now there is no difference between buffs that affect mounts and buffs that won’t affect them, there used to be a difference, not that I’m complaining, I like it more like it's now but tooltips should reflect the new changes.

    Horseshoes and tacking (or barding): Flying speed is being modified by "ground" stats in those items, it has always been like that but it's confusing, having an item that gives you +60 ground speed and +30 flight speed but in fact gives you 60 mounted speed regardless if you are flying or not is confusing, it's something that should be changed before going live, there is no need to change the underlying math, just remove the “ground” from the tooltips and remove the +30 air speed from the Kamelott mechanical Horseshoes.

    Given the number of changes you have done to run speed if you plan to push this change to live you should change tooltips to reflect the new math. All buffs should display as a percentage. Before the speed change some buffs applied to both mounted and unmounted speed while others only applied to unmounted speed, the speed stacking changes modified that and now all buffs affect mounted speed regardless of its pre-change behavior. If that’s intended, the tooltips for those buffs should be changed to reflect the new stacking rules.

    I know that the tooltips are low priority but in my opinion given the number of changes that movement speed has experienced in the last couple of months you should change the tooltips to reflect the new stacking rules, it will make the system more understandable and will reduce confusion.


    I know it’s a lot of work and you have a small team so I’ll understand it if you decide not waste your time changing this.

    PS:
    You should have kidnaped one or two of those that attended SOE live to force them to work for you as slaves… Graye and Dosi would have made great slaves… you could have forced them to do menial things like changing tooltips and things like that.

    PPS:
    Before i forget, i think i mentioned in my previous post but i love the change.
    TLoch and Leavwiz like this.
  3. Filzin Well-Known Member

    Logged into test with Druid buffs on. Only runspeed difference i saw from buffs was the vit. The 70% change didn't happen.
  4. Graye Well-Known Member

    I am definitely seeing the 70%. Are you sure there wasn't another RS buff being hidden somewhere?
  5. TLoch Developer


    Mount accessories should never have a "Flying Mount Speed" stat on them. Not that it's impossible to have them (obviously, since you have items in game that are like that) but that part of the design of the game is that they simply modify "Mount Speed" which applied to both ground and flying. On mount accessories, the we don't even look at the "Flying Mount Speed" at all. If you have items like these, go ahead and /bug them and just say that the Flying Mount Speed stat does nothing.
    Kilsin, Exmortis, Graye and 1 other person like this.
  6. Rahtiz Developer

    On a side note, we will also be changing the tooltips to reflect these changes.
    Kilsin, TLoch, Exmortis and 2 others like this.
  7. Graye Well-Known Member

    The only one is KDQ Mechanical Horseshoes.
  8. Graye Well-Known Member

    What about the mounted/unmounted portions of player buffs?
    Gresteh likes this.
  9. Rahtiz Developer


    They will all be changed over time to be accurate.
    Exmortis and Graye like this.
  10. Graye Well-Known Member

    I guess I was more curious as to if they would be a single speed mod or apply as mounted vs. unmounted. If they become a single mod, rangers will require some tweaking. The rest should be fine just removing the unused portion.
  11. Exmortis Well-Known Member

    Wow great work, and thanks for the understanding how it all works.
  12. TLoch Developer

    The reality is that they are and have always been a single speed mod. Buffs don't know the difference between mounted or not. It just appeared that it worked for mounted only because of the fragile way they were set up in the old stacking rules.
    Gresteh and Graye like this.
  13. Graye Well-Known Member

    when you go through the buff mods, can you then take a look into boosting the ranger's speed buff? Theirs was kept lower, as it was divvied up with a higher mounted speed boost. I don't think the other speed buffs really need any adjustment aside from pulling the erroneous descriptor.
    Schiller and TLoch like this.
  14. dravid Well-Known Member

  15. Baldur Active Member

    This is a big YES for me.

    I know I've requested it before in the run speed changes thread in the developer roundtable, here is the relevant part of that post:
  16. TLoch Developer

    Arguably, the tooltip clearly says it is a percentage of normal run speed. Does it matter if normal run speed is ten meters per second or ten fathoms per second or even ten centimeters per second? You can feel how fast 100% is (which mathematically is just 100 units per second, where each unit is worth 5.5 centimeters), so you definitely have a point of reference at which to value 100% and your current run speed.

    I'm not saying that the mount tab shouldn't show the speed in meters per second, but I'm just trying to give the PoV from all sides.
    Graye and Gresteh like this.
  17. Baldur Active Member

    Well, all we've ever had to go off of is the percentage, so I agree that is what we have gauged everything off of, the "feeling" of what the percent is.

    It's not a huge deal I guess, but it sounds like it wouldn't be very hard to put it on the mount tab, and we players always want as much information as we can possibly get given to us. :D
    TLoch likes this.
  18. Graye Well-Known Member

    Wether it is 10m/s or 5m/s shouldn't matter.

    The deviations in my math and the actual code base prove thar really.

    So long as you can see the three major factors, that is more than enough data to extrapolate from.

    Unless the devs (present or future) intend to add modifications to the base speeds, it may be a bit overwhelming to some people. Too much information in your face can be just as bad as not enough.

    Personally, I'd like to keep the in-game interface clean and have a stickied thread on the forums (dev locked) where the more intricate information could be accessed. Those who take it to the next level do plenty of analysis out of game, merely data gathering while in game.

    Applied amounts from gear, buffs, innate, totals, and caps are the four (six) useful quantities for me in game.

    Not just for run speed, but for all modifiers. I would prefer to see my base stats, the total modified from gear and gear cap, the total modified from buffs and buff caps, as well as the grand total and its cap. Not all modifiers fall under this in a basic form though. For instance, spell damage is modified by INT, SDF, gear, buffs, bard song, diplos, short duration buffs, and flat damage. Some have their values and caps on their own tool tips, others get lumped together.

    I don't even know if diplos have a cap, or bard song, or short term buffs. ( you just can't get some high enough to determine).

    Keeping on track with run speed though... I don't see a cap in the foreseeable future.. So having the totals for the three main factors and the grand total would be more than beneficial with appropriate tool tips to differentiate mounted vs. unmounted.
  19. Baldur Active Member

    I couldn't agree more with this. I think I've seen screen shots of a UI mod that had something like this in it, but I've never used it. Would be nice to have this for all stats in the default interface.

    As for the percent vs number, I would much rather have the break out of the run speed than the actual number: base, buffs, gear, total. What would be nice as well, but might not be feasible, would be if you moused over the buff total and it would pop up a tool tip having the detailed list of buffs that contributed to that total and the percent that came from each one. Same goes for the item total.
  20. TLoch Developer

    I would suggest creating a page on the Vanguard Wikia and documenting anything the players find to be accurate formulas. For testing purposes, the developers will give formulas to make sure things are good, but I highly doubt SOE would be fond of putting the statistical formulas on a stickied thread here on the forums.
    Graye likes this.

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