So why exactly isn't this game being made open source?

If Smed cares about players as much as he claims this should be a no brainer. SoE had zero chance of fixing this game because they don't have a clue what old school players want; however, the players themselves might be able to salvage it.

Sony loses nothing by giving a failed game back to the players and might even save some face in the process.

Fully agree.
Just look at the success of the Everquest Project 1999 ran by fans.
I am ready to bet that the population on the P99 server which runs the original Everquest from 1999 beats largely the highest populated server of Sony Everquest Live.
And when P99 releases Velious, they ll surely beat the 1000 players mark in a sustainable way for months.

With the Vanguard potential I am sure that an equivalent of Project 99 realized for Vanguard would be a success too.

Their license for middleware (e.g. Unreal and SpeedTree, off the top of my head, but there's probably more) won't allow them to open source it even if they wanted to.

On the other hand, if they did want to throw a bone to players there's ways they could go about it without violating those licenses.

That would depend on SoE disregarding their own EULA.

"You may not use any third party software to modify the Software to change Game play. You may not create, facilitate, host, link to or provide any other means through which the Game may be played by others, such as through server emulators. You may not take any action which imposes an unreasonable or disproportionately large load on our infrastructure. You may not buy, sell or auction (or host or facilitate the ability to allow others to buy, sell or auction) any Game characters, items, coin or copyrighted material"

Since EQ-1 is still running and they most likely have no intentions of selling or closing that game (in the near future), they could easily shut down the emulators with a team of lawyers. With Vanguard, we don't know their true intentions as to what they will do with the game in the future. They may not wish to have emulators out there making the possible sale in the future of the game less attractive.

Project 1999 is a very limited, yet attractive emulation that does not include all of the content that SoE feels paying players find attractive. In other words, it's a small and popular niche that *might* attract some users to come back to the paying SoE version of the game (new users kicking the tires on the emulator?). Vanguard, on the flips side is a game that many of us would love to continue playing and still has a potential to possibly re-release or sell someday as is.

I wanted to edit my post, but cant:

I wanted to add don't rule out Brad and his team. SoE has had an ongoing/off-going relationship for years with McQuaid. We know he attempted to take over the game, but was denied. We also know that his new project may take years to get off the ground and will be quite costly. While SoE may have said they would never sell this game, they have said never before and changed their minds. Brad left before to create this game only to have it wind up in the stable of SoE, who is to say that things could not change in the future.

There's no need to give out the code, SOE can just make a linux client themselves.

Doesn't make sense doesn't SOE own the code? Microsoft or any other company doesn't own it, sounds like some sort of excuse to me just not to make it.

Seriously, I'm as dissapointed as the next person that the game is sun setting; I started with Beta, but what is so difficult to understand about them not wishing to give away their game? Companies don't just give away their intellectual or real property when they close a division of their company. Shareholders and C.F.O.s don't simply give away something that they invested millions in. This is not shareware, as much as some would like it to be.

You misunderstood, I didn't say for them to give their game away, I said for them to make a linux client themselves with their own code, it is their's after all not microsoft or any other company.

P.S: You know what this is going to go back and fourth and I don't feel like arguing, so I'm not replying to this thread anymore.

It isn't necessarily their own code. Without knowing anything specific about the contracts and licenses wrapped up in the game, we do know that there is at least a license for the Unreal Engine--this alone is enough to make it not "their own code." Furthermore, the game was originally under Microsoft, so there very well may be clauses within that contract regarding sunsetting the game. On top of that, there was, and likely still is, an ongoing relationship between Brad and SOE, wherein there may be further contractual obligations regarding ownership of any IP.

Pretty much, it isn't as simple as "gawd just let people at your code!" because SOE is a publisher and publishers operate at a weird nexus of contracts, licenses, agreements, and industry norms. It is absolutely unsurprising that SOE can't release VG without opening themselves up to an enormous amount of risk and liabilities. In fact, I'd be surprised if it was any different. Again, at the very least we know there is a license with Epic--historically, lawsuits against Epic regarding ownership of IP under their licenses have favored Epic pretty handily.

If the code cannot be open sourced, how a bout SOE simply package up the server binaries and server config information and GIVE them to us? Then all the IP is still protected, and a EULA can still be enforced.

It doesn't have to be open source, just freeware subject to EULA so that others can still operate servers and obtain the client.

This is NOT unprecedented by any means, it is how games such as Homeworld, Star Fleet Command and and plethora of other games live on after their publishers abandoned them.

I heard there were several inquiries about purchasing the rights, they wont do that due to some soe specific code, which could mean they too lazy to remove code related to the soe store. I dont know if anyone has asked about leasing the rights. And, I dont think they can let anyone host it on a private server without paying someone to do the network maintenance, even if they leave the SOE store inplace and usable.

It occurs to me a major reason, WHY, specifically VG cannot be open sourced. VG uses Unreal Engine 2 under license from Ubisoft.

No way that can be open sourced as it is very much proprietary. Same goes for the tool set used to develop content and if there were a transfer of technology, whatever party that did take it would have to pay the licensing and royalty fees to Ubisoft and it would still have to remain closed source under whatever terms their license has.

I can see how this closure saves some money for SOE now as well, no more checks cut to Ubisoft for royalty payments...25% royalty on UDK (Unreal Development Kits) related revenue above US$50,000 from all UDK-based games or commercial applications.

Saves SOE quite a chunk of change indeed (and its not like SOE can or will change game engines to something with little or no royalty fees).

VG used a hacked version of Unreal Engine 2.5 and I think you will find SOE can't sell it due to legal reasons because Brad still has some kind of connection/ownership to the IP and it could possibly be linked to others but I doubt it.

I still think if SOE really wanted to, there would be a way to release some info/code to the public to let us continue playing on private servers but I cannot see SOE ever doing this for their customers, maybe another company would be more inclined to help it's gaming community but SOE just doesn't strike me as one of those companies who care enough.

Personally i think many of you are putting far to much stock into this 1 in a million chance of success emulator project. even if they manage to get the code perfectly right, the body that had controll over everything until now will be gone (soe) opening up the door to all kinds of ****, gms that sell items for self gain, server admins that push their own agenda's with the game, and their pockets by introducing donation systems (under the pretence of covering server costs, but meanwhile gain a few k a month)

no, this emulator is not for me, and i dont see it working for the vg community, but hey maybe im wrong.

I didn't mention anything about an emulator, I said I would like them to release the code to the public so we can create private servers since they are closing the game down and will no longer need it, if it's just a matter of licensing plus Brad and SOEs permission, I doubt it will ever happen though..

I wouldn't play or support any project that had any of what you described, Ali. I think you have been misinformed.