Venting on the forums...

"We often refuse to accept an idea merely because the tone of voice in which it has been expressed is unsympathetic to us." Friedrich Nietzche

With the realization that this post might be bombed into oblivion...

I can understand most completely, truly, the frustration that our community is feeling with the lag, the unplayable chunks, the trapped characters, etc. Even though my guild is not a raiding guild, I still have players who take an "undefined hiatus" from the game for the very same reasons that our raiding community members do. It...well, there is no other way to put it than to say that it really sucks.

My only concern and my reason for posting is that the threads created recently and replied to in places other than Gameplay Discussion have pushed other threads down and given a highly negative tone to the whole of VG right now. Many might be thinking, "so, players should know this" and I do not disagree with that, but I feel it important that we as a community try to realize that it is quite likely that we can only serve to hurt ourselves more in the long run in posting and replying to things in multiple places and flooding the forums with a singular (although quite important) issue.

I know that this is likely to get flamed, or maybe ignored in totality, but there are some of us who reply to new and returning players in game quite often answering questions as to the state of the game and if things are "really as bad as it seems on the forums then why the heck does anyone stay?" I try to explain to folks that it is out of care for the game, genuine care, that our community can tend to get hot under the collar about the issues in this game we that love...but what of those folks who never choose not to join because of what perceptions they have by what they see? How then can that help our cause and the game that we love?

For those who have read this far, many thanks! For those who wish to throw the napalm, I still care about your feelings and opinions none the less.

I understand your point of view. However, I feel the community has been very patient with regards to waiting for the code to get fixed from the latest updates or even getting a tentative schedule on how long it will take to get fixed. I believe that what we are seeing is an attempt to get some form of feedback on what is happening - being patient and waiting for it - has not worked.

I completely agree with you, Krolk, I do, and I thank you for a respectful reply. But when we decide to post and reply to game issues in forums not designated for such discussions the action only exacerbates several things; not only the issue (which I can understand is the intent), but also it puts the posters in a negative light as "flamers" and/or "trolls" and it also draws the unwanted attention of having a CS person deleting the threads and possibly punishing the posters, most especially if the CS persons in question do not know the posters and understand their histories and intent. How can that help the issue? If the players with intimate knowledge of the issues are banned from the forums how can they give the feedback needed to fix the concern? (And trust me, I know that these folks have spoken countless times before and are still having to, which is beyond frustrating). I can certainly see continuing, as a community, to continue bumping a thread in the appropriate place, sending a message directly to those who can help, etc. But when choosing to take a route that will very likely yield result most unhelpful to the cause, then everyone suffers.

Ah! To dream the impossible dream. I agree with you Aasha. But, it ain't gonna happen.

I can see your point Aasha.

I know before I play a game I look on the games forum to see what the issues are, what the praises are, how the community acts, and determine whether I am going to play based partly (sometimes a big part) by what I see in the forums.

I recently explained to our new rep that we are an odd community in that we do everything we can to encourage players in game and stay positive in spite of issues like the lagfest (going strong since april 2012 maintenance) and the chunk crash, chunk to your death , etc.
Instead, we use the forums as our venting point. While I agree that the tone of a post can make a difference in how the CR team reacts. the underlying facts are that people are speaking the truth about what is happening in game. The SOE response can be to put coders on it to fix it (if they aren't too busy with shinier projects) or block the threads so that new players that check the forums wont know the problems exist until they get into the game and need us to apologize and nurture them through it. The recent revelation (as if we didn't already know) that /bug reports are essentially circular filed after a cursory attempt by people that don't even know this game put into it , is a very telling piece of information. While we applaud the team's efforts to provide new content. If you die when you chunk in, or your raid cant kill something because you are staring at a stuck screen for 30 seconds, then their efforts are going to be wasted. We may be in violation of forum rules when we vent, but as bad is the game is performing right now, screaming from the rooftops is the only logical response.

I agree, and I will scream right with you, even though, in some cases, I can only sympathize with your concerns...

I am just going to scream in the correct place so that the messenger is not shot before the message is heard.

Hello Aasha hope you are well. I watch the forums and continue to "tinker" in game now and again.

It is hard and I applaud those that faithfully play on despite issues in game. I have always understood that there are serious problems with the code in this game and that it is a nightmare to create even the most basic patch. However I can understand the occasional outburst of frustration especially when it feels things have taken a giant step back while attempting to make improvements. I am currently alpha testing one game and beta testing another and both are extremely stable already. And here we are years later....still crashing, its very disheartening. .

When something you care about seems to fall apart some react a bit poorly initially, I hope the moderators will clean up the mess and maybe leave one up with a response of "please keep it respectful" though I have to say I've been in forums in other games and posts like that are an hourly event with other posts that make this seem almost angelic. I guess that is one bonus to a small community, a primarily positive forum.

It's a mixed bag. On one hand, if anything works at all, I just go play in some area that doesn't have major issues.

On the other, after various buggy patches, I distinctly recall SoE posting that updates were going to be plainly available on Test for a decent amount of time before going live. That hasn't happened. Obviously, we're not talking about power balancing high end targets, we're talking about general muck that I could spot in about five minutes from any type of toon. So a bit of discontent is in order, elevating it to a flame fest achieves nothing, so am I going to vent in some way for over a month of poor performance for something that should not have happened...yes.

Ultimately, this stuff might yield a totally stable environment, but going over a month with hardly any visible communication from the other side of the curtain is not inspiring either.

All we would really like is some feedback in the other direction. Its been over a month since we had any feedback on the code problems that we are experiencing in game.

We are talking about the patch from Dec. 10th. It messed up a lot of buffs, and the issues about permanent levitation have been addressed, but there's more buff stuff to clean up. The same patch also rendered a lot of chunks unplayable. Because it's code related, that is why it looks like a huge number of weird buff problems caused a huge number of chunk problems, they are all different, widespread, and random, that is why there are so many threads noting so many aspects of it, but it's all from the patch.

I am actually replying to yev's post , but since this part of the forum is still broken so that some of us cannot use the reply or edit function, I will simply just state here that the screaming function is to get a sense of relief. we realize that such outbursts don't help anything, but it hurts to stay quiet when friends and new players just keep giving up after they die from simply going into the next chunk, or they die because they cannot move for 30s while the mob keeps killing the. I am not sure what the proper channels are to report this ongoing experience in a meaningful way other than to say it is happening to virtually everyone in the game and in pretty much every chunk. In other posts I have provided the time and the action I was taking at the time. I encourage others to do so as well.

Code Problems are like Rich People Problems. Hard to define but they definitely ruin the flow of everyone's day who passes near them. Also, these Code Problems affect other people a heck of a lot more severely than their actual selves, so a lot of time and suffering with a broken system will go on while things are debated in an internal philosophical struggle un-witnessed by the constituency save for the most significant of eruptions or tact changes.

In this particular instance, the large rug that Wiggin's Holiday Fix It List was swept under, by and large, is where many of the concerns the players now refer to as "Code Problems" can be found, Dude.


PS: Not that I have any issue with the holiday clean up attempt, it was a good and helpful thing for what it could, in fact, accomplish. Using it due to relevance.

I realise you weren't here before Christmas and you are only witnessing what is (hopefully) the tail end of things. However, this is beyond frustration. It has now reached the point where everyone with a gold sub has paid you for a month of service in which the game has gone from totally broken and unplayable to vaguely playable to totally broken again. This is, frankly, disgusting.

What are you doing about the $15 per gold account that has been flushed down the toilet? Will you be laughing all the way to the bank, or are you going to actually do something to put things right?

All we are asking for is some feedback. The game is currently out right broken due to the lag and zone crashes. Many of us are paying good money to play the game. A daily update on the situation would be appropriate.

I see your fancy quote and raise you a more fitting one!

"The squeaky wheel gets the grease." Josh Billings

I think the intent of Aasha's post got lost pretty quickly. She wasn't saying that we shouldn't complain about bugs, crashes, lag,etc. What she was saying is that it should be done in the proper manner, and in the proper section of the forums, and with as much of a respectful tone as you can muster. Unlike the spamming of posts to every forum, including off topic, about fixing the TK chunk. While that may have been an issue, even a serious one, that was uncalled for.

To blame the community for being outraged at the state of the game is a slap in the face, imo. If anyone has hurt the reputation of the game it's the people pushing out these patches before dealing with the many issues pointed out on test--choosing to fix them in a live server environment, instead.

I'm very excited VG is getting some dev attention, but the way the updates have been introduced has been far from optimal. Many of these issues were brought up by myself and guildmates when we took the time to go on test and point them out, just to see them patched into the live server, anyway.

Since our feedback was ignored then, it should come as no surprise to see this result. The forums aren't a marketing tool, but a direct line of communication with the only people who can solve the issues. Regardless, I don't think the answer to the issue of "folks... choose not to join because of what perceptions they have by what they see" is that the players need to be more quiet about the problems in the game. That's just addressing a symptom instead of the cause.