Stealth. It is lacking a lot and needs to be looked at after years of neglect. This ability/stance is a learned ability, it is raised via skill ups (Sneak, Hide) and is managed by points (for a Rogue anyway) as Stealth level, max level obviously is the most undetected (you would think...) and the lower your level goes the more prone to being discovered you are. Since Stealth is a learned ability that you actually have to level up and master over time, this ability should be the dominate force out of Invisibility and Undead Invisiblity since they are low level class trainer spells (or crafted runes, quested or dropped clickies for any class to use) that you do not need to level or raise at all, they have a chance to break but you can cast it again on yourself without fear of losing it as it reapplies without breaking. Stealth is seen through by many mobs via check boxes with a /roll chance to see through it, which is bad design in my opinion and should be changed to a better system. Stealth is completely useless in City of Brass as 90% of mobs see through it no matter what level of stealth you are in, I was in epic stealth and was seen by the first 8 mobs simultaneously, I then used my Escape ability (to completely drop all aggro) but it had no effect at all, I will /bug this later. Stealth: Player raised ability Managed level of stealth Mastered ability (capped by raising skill points) Only available to Rogue (Stance main aspect of class role with abilities and epics tied in to raise stealth higher), Ranger (1 ability), Wolf Shaman (1 ability) Should be the dominate ability since it's levelled via skill Is seen through by a lot of mobs (works best on humanoid mobs that are not CAPPED NAMED) Raises with you adventuring level up to level 55 Currently out done by Invisibility/Undead Invisibility Stealth should be a combination of both Invis and Undead Invis as it is a learned/mastered/raised ability Stealth should actually be more powerful with level/raised ability Invisibility/Undead Invisibility: Low level class trainer spell Has chance to break within 5 minutes Can be reapplied indefinitely while invisible without breaking or alerting nearby enemies Can be used by everyone or have it applied to any class Can be crafted from runes by anyone Can be quested/dropped by mobs for clicky ability by anyone Can have both normal and undead applied to same character to be invisible to everything other than most CAPPED NAMED Is more powerful than Stealth even though it is a much lower level spell Is there any chance we can have a look at the way in which Stealth works? I know it's probably a big job and the Devs have other things on their plate at the moment, I just wanted to bring it up with Buffs are being looked at so it was brought to their attention for future update.
Question for ya, since I don't have any stealth using classes now: If a mob can see through invisibility / undead invisibility (apply whichever one is correct for the mob type), will it see through stealth as well? Is it a blanket kind of "True Seeing" checkbox? Or is it possible to stealthily sneak past certain mobs who would see through the appropriate invis type, such as Tehatamani mobs (Scorcher, Kindler, Deathsear, etc.) being able to detect my invisible-to-undead Necromancer?
Stealth works a little differently than Invis, invis will not be seen by any mob of that type other than all CAPS NAMED. So if I use Invis and run around an entire chunk of humanoid mobs or living animal mobs I will never be seen unless there is a 5/6 dot named. Same goes for undead Invis with undead mobs and animal mobs. Stealth however doesn't work on undead at all and has a chance to be seen by every humanoid mob, it's like a check box system that rolls an RNG every second? that's why you will see blue question marks above their head...they are checking and trying to "see" you while stealthed. It's my opinion that because Stealth is a learned and raised skill, it should be superior to any invis and be just as powerful because you actually have to level it up via skill points every time you get an adventuring level all the way to level 55, so by rights it should be the best form of sneak/stealth/invis in game but it's not sadly.
First off, I would like to state that I DO agree that stealth should be superior to the current implementation of invisibility and undead invisibility, considering the greater effort involved (skill points, skill boosting gear, that it is a core component of the rogue class, that it reduces your speed when active). ----- At the same time, I'd also like if Invisibility and Undead Invisibility gained a similar type of system to make it not so mindless. More effort = better invis effect. For example, checking using the skill attached to the Spell School that governs the spellcast would put it on even footing with Stealth. There are +skill items for the Spell Schools which seem unused aside from Counterspelling. This would give them desirability. Clicky invis items which would be given a preset strength based on the quality of the item (eg. Xennu energy shard invis clicky would be as good as an at-level rogue/caster in terms of "skill check"). Carvings would use the level of the crafter x10 as the skill check, but each tier of carving would have a skill cap (Journeyman caps at 500 skill, Initiate at 400, Apprentice at 300, Amateur at 200, Novice at 100) that ensures you can never outstrip a "core" stealth / invis class who has equipped skill gear. Beyond this, only classes with stealth or invisibility related abilities (of which currently there are none, for invis) would be able to surpass the quality of sneakiness gained by maxing skill and equipping a sneaking suit of gear (be it +stealth or +spellschool). ((Side note: I'd like to point out that for Carvings, while anyone may buy and use them, the grind to be able to make good Carvings is just as strenuous, if not more so, than raising an adventuring skill on a character. The low level carvings also have a prohibitively long cooldown for reuse.)) ----- As for how invisibility stands now in the game: Actually Invisibility, while completely reliable on things it DOES work on, is not foolproof by a very long shot. On one hand, if the mob is confirmed to not see Invis, then you have to physically brush it for it to sense you. Some mobs have slightly buggy detection boxes from what I can see, but for the most part, if you didn't intersect with the mob model, you are fine. However, I have experienced quite a few 3 and 4 dot non-named mobs who can see through the appropriate Invis type from a distance. This also causes their aggro radius to increase compared to not being invisible. I will also get blue question marks for those mobs, when they enter a "Searching" mode, and the threshold between "Searching" and "Aggro" is very short, it feels like 1 or 2 in-game steps. Examples are the little roaming skeleton Squires in Graystone, they're 3 dot, and they will mercilessly track you down if you go near them with Undead Invisibility (as if the little floaty balls that cast Ancient Rage to knock you out of stealth/invis aren't enough). Click your invisibility off, and rely on standard level-based proximity to avoid aggroing, you can actually get closer to them than before! The same goes for 4-dot Tehatamani undead in the four ToT crypts. They can see through Invisibility against Undead from a distance. That said, there are plenty of dungeons that can be fully Invissed through aside from the bosses though. I feel that this ability to content skip is bad. Invisibility should only help for certain portions of dungeons, as an "alternate route of progression", but not the entire durned thing. ----- Edit: An addition to an already senselessly long post. I think that some careful balance is also needed to ensure that there don't end up being a glut of places that -only- rogues and/or those with readily-reusable sources of invisibility can effectively venture without a full group. Stealth, Invisibility, Undead Invisibility, none of these things should allow one character to bypass what would normally take a balanced group (or at least a couple very decent players) to attain. Vol Tuniel / Thelaseen tomes are a step in the right direction, where the objects are not usable (red exclamation mark doesn't appear) while the viewer is Invisible or in Stealth.
Here are a few ideas that would be interesting to implement, in order to create a balance between: areas you can use Invisibility, areas you can use Stealth, and areas you can use neither. Mobs that sense you via sound (stealth has a large edge, unless a "muffle" spell is implemented) Mobs that sense you via ground vibrations (stealth natively has an edge, but levitation can negate this for both stealth/invis users) Mobs that sense you via smell (add a rogue item that masks scent, and voila -- only stealth works now) Antimagic zone (extremely rare and limited to single rooms, no Energy can be used and all magic effects are suppressed -- absolutely stealth only!) Dense airborne particulates (makes ALL stealth and invisibility less effective, similar to throwing flour on the invisible man) Placed or mob-wielded tracking beams, eg. searchlights, magical laser tripwires, a golem's proximity sensors (invisibility has an edge here as the beams will just pass through, sneaking characters are still solid) Damage effects with a greater level of sophistication than Graystone's Ancient Rage mobs (only a character who has the know-how to disable the trap, be it mechanical or magical, can avoid losing their stealth/invis state)
They are some nice idea's but I think the VG code is a little to messy to implement things systems like that with the small Dev team we have. Invis works fine as it is, it may be boring but it works as intended. Stealth however, does not and needs attention but it's looking unlike that will happen anytime soon.
That's a shame, because stealth gameplay is great. I particularly enjoyed games like Thief and Dishonored (though somehow I could never get into Metal Gear Solid). It's a lot more fun to have to worry about the noise, light level, the facing of your foes, and so on, compared to shrouding yourself in arcane energy and sprinting along without a care in the world. Or even more confusing, bard songs (I have a bard that I enjoy greatly, and I still think it makes no sense whatsoever). Bard: I'll play a song and bang on my drum so that nobody notices us! Group: Wheeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee-
Most groups like to kill through for Experience anyway, if it's a high level group, what ever they need to get to will usually see through invis or require something from the mobs before the named. So this rarely gets used to bypass content unless is a summon down to a mob or clicky like a LoreStone or Psi Gestalt or named kill in say NN or somewhere. It's not really a game breaker in VG.
Oh, that is true. I'd like to point out NN as a pretty good example of how to bugger over (most) invisibility users though. The simple mixing of undead with living scorpions/snakes patrolling around will force you to have both undead AND living invisibility active at the same time, which basically demands a bard to pull off. Meaning, unless you are a bard with Undead Invis carvings, you will need 2 people, one of whom is a bard with an invis song, and the other who can cast invis against undead on themselves and others (necromancers and...?). An invis song pulse will not break the already-applied Undead Invis, whereas any other class won't be able to double-Invis without breaking the first invisibility by the action of casting the second invisibility spell/clicky.
Just a thought on the rogue escape ability...for it to be effective there has to be some other target available to take the agro that is dropped. If the rogue is solo or way out in front, the agro will just immediately go right back on the rogue. At least that is how I understand it...
That is incorrect and wrong thread As long as you don't have any dots or debuffs actively ticking on the mob or any pets/minions attacking, you can wipe all aggro even if you don't have a target. The closer you are, the more likely you are of regaining aggro due to aggro range from mobs but running 20-25m + ahead and dropping aggro will wipe everything no matter what (except in City of Brass for some reason).
I don't play a rogue (well mine is 17 and pretty fun) but I agree with u... A Hugh stealth skill should be just as good at LEAST and the caster invite abilities from like lvl.. 12.. A 55 rogue with max stealth should take Harry potter on a run for his money
Been away for a long time, but I remember stealth being far better back then. I didn't play a stealth class, but I remember a friend who used to corpse drag our healer into dungeons on his rogue, the only way he could be detected is if his toon bumped into a mob. Once at the desired location he would raise the healer who would summon the rest of us to his location. I'm not sure if this could be done everywhere, but he did it several times for that quest series in the level 30's for the armour, started in some elf town in Thestra. I can remember him mentioning changes upcoming not long before I stopped playing.
