Hello everyone! Over the past several weeks, the team has been discussing Death Penalty and how we would like to improve it in our game. The discussion of death penalties came from the desire to take away hard limitations for edge cases and replacing them with systemic changes that discourage abusing the system and encourage other aspects of gameplay. One design issue we run into is the issue of release zerging during a raid. Before, to avoid the abuse of release zerging, we had to place raids in places far away from Resurrection Altars, or put up no fly zones and/or max speed zones to prevent players from doing this. Those harsh responses to edge case players don’t do justice to the other players who just want to play the game normally, so we want to get rid of them and address the real issues. At the same time, we want to encourage players to use in-combat resurrections such as select abilities and resurrection items. The new death penalty changes hope to address that. Currently, Death Penalty accrues at 10% per death, dealing a toll to your health pools, attributes, and some calculated statistics such as accuracy and healing effectiveness. In the new system, all of the same stats are affected but to differing degrees based on how you resurrect after dying. We’ve identified three ways to revive that we want to act different. They are, resurrecting from a player’s ability or item, releasing, and releasing while in a raid. The below lists show the death penalty values with each consecutive death. Resurrection 5% 10% 15% 20% 25% Release 10% 20% 30% 40% 50% Raid Release 10% 25% 40% 70% A player’s death penalty will never decrease due to death. So after you’ve reached a death penalty of 40%, resurrecting won’t put you back at 25%, it will simple apply no changes to your current death penalty. There are some things to keep in mind with this change. This will punish raiders who attempt to release zerg the raid encounter. Because of this, some raids will become more difficult than they once were. That kind of tuning will be handled on a case by case basis as they arise in the future. So if you’re thinking that a particular raid encounter will now be unbeatable, don’t fret. We’re not aiming to increase or decrease the challenge of raid mobs, but to instead prevent abusive edge case activity which circumvents the already present challenges.
I like it, it lowers the penalty for those that get resurrected and at the same time it punishes those that try to zerg mobs. Keep up the good work and if you could do a summary of upcoming changes i would be very grateful as we lack much info in what should we expect from the game in the near future.
My opinion is you are trying to over-complicate a system covering a topic the players don't care much about. You are now proposing to have 3 different ways death can affect a character (which doesn't make any logical sense), and you are going to spend a lot of development time here to achieve what exactly? IMO, you are sowing your own problems. In most raids, people use civics and buff bots to 'power' people up. The difference between being fully buffed and not, is huge enough to be a penalty if you aren't. Res'ing someone back into the fight often means they come back with no civics, burnt consumable timers, and lack whatever buffs are not presently available in the raid. So there is already a penalty. Now, for reasons unknown, you are going down the line of creating encounters/chunks that disable civics, which as a side effect, minimizes the difference between a res'd player and a non-res'd player. You are shooting yourself in the foot because you are creating the very problem you are trying to solve. Since civics are not a part in many of the new encounters, you now claim there's a possible 'zerging' problem.
I tend to agree with Dielle here, I do not see why death should suddenly change after all this time to make a slight difference of a small % to a rezzed player while now drastically hurting a released player in a raid... You are dead, you should suffer even consequences no matter which way you are brought back to life, whether it be releasing or resurrected. There are very few guilds that use zerg exploits these days with all the lorestones and OP 35-45 gear and chest drops plus Aug's...they are already almost godly, why now change a system that has been in place and "worked" for so long? I know there must be a reason you are looking into it but from my perspective it is hard to imagine what that reason is.
Is this going to affect the poor soloist who struggles through a dungeon only to die at or near the end? If he ressurects at an altar, rides miles to get back to the dungeon and tries again will he get penalised by this system if he dies again? How long does there have to be between deaths for the system to 'reset' ? Example, Ksavari Hollow, I need to find 7 disease idols, I find 6 and die, I want to go back and look for the 7th. How long do I have to stay away before the system resets?
Well there are still bugs persistant with people concistantly not recieving rezzes during fights. I think 1/3th of the combat rezzes actually fail to rez a player, and not because the skill failed. but because the penalty failed. So releasing and then getting combat rezzed on your tombstone it the only sure way your going to be alive again. so then your still stuck with the raid release system ? As dielle said, dying in raid sucks enough already, the rez penalty as a whole was never really needed and just enhanced the issues. Try coming back on ae encounters like teraxis, nima slimir. Dying there and losing 30% of your hp from civivs is bad enough, some fight we even choose not to come back and just finish with the remaining living people. Its already a pita to heal these people, doesnt need to be emphasized. i guess most of you have tried rezzing a person int he karax fight? guessing it didnt go so well ?
First of all TLoch, thank you for taking the time to post and explain this before any change was made. Does this mean that, should the new system be implemented, you will remove the 127.03% movement speed limit in all the areas that have this? If there is one thing that really annoys me in this game, this would be it! I like the advantage you would give to using any form of resurrection (it makes sense), but releasing should be releasing, whether while soloing, grouping or raiding. The disadvantage given to raid releasing seems unnecessarily aggressive. If and only if you are going to implement a disadvantage for raiders anyway, perhaps it should go: 1. 10% 2. 30% 3. 50%
Why are soloers so penalized? While not an avid raider, I can see Dielles point very clearly and agree. Stop trying to fix things that aren't broke and focus on the things that are - you'll make the community very happy that way
does anyone really zerg to win ? I have been raiding with unleashed for a couple of years now and the only time we zerged a raid mob was for grins (nimeaa back in the day) we were laughing ourselves silly as we piled up tombstones around him until we could no longer see him. funny stuff. As others have said, why waste dev time and effort to fix a non-problem unless the perception is that newer content is going to lend itself to this and you are trying to prevent it before it happens. Do the players really care? is anyone really hurt by zerging? eventually guilds work out the strats and win properly , no one wants to zerg win. It is a tactic for people that don't have good skills or gear. thanks for the explanation, but don't do this.
I have to say, I am up in the air on this one. Not sure why you guys decided to do the deathpenalty in this way, as I didn't think it was currently broken?
Ya, I'm kind of at a loss for this one... I have to agree with Dielle on this one.. There is no need for the change. very few mobs in VG ever get zerged. But, the fact of the matter is, it is a tactic that players came up with years ago its not the best tactic, its not the 'coolest' tactic but, trying to make change after change after change to compensate for it is well.. a waste of time. change this, and players will still find a way around it..
I clicked on the link with your post specifically expecting you to have 5+ ways of improving this system and making it even harsher. But if even YOUR not feelin it...
i am sure you mean back when he was still on the tower and people that died tried to fly back and get another lick in to stave off a wipe, been there, done that, wouldn't work in the new location at all. still, its not like people do this as a strategy for regular wins. any other meaningful zerg targets out there?
I couldn't agree more. By disabling civic buffs from all new content you have created the gap that you now seek to fix. Regardless of the fact that diplo's aren't allowed on new content I still don't see zerging as becoming a real problem. If your guild can kill an encounter after most of the raid has died once or several times then chances are the encounter is already below the level of difficulty that your guild could compete against legitimately. Please just spend time working on Pankor Zhi instead.
I'd like to know why raid-zerging is a problem. Sometimes it's fun as heck to try to get back into the mob to keep it stringing along to see if we can prevent a wipe. Why is it such a big deal that we have to implement this level of change to the death system to stop it?
I also agree that this change would be negative. "Zerging" is not a preferred strat, but hella fun when/if it comes down to it. Mobs are designed to be defeatable with strategy, without a solid strat theres no way to win on the end game mobs. Please spend more time addressing bigger issues, as this issue is a non-issue. Abusing respawn/rez just doesn't occur at the end game (nor can I honestly think of too many ways to abuse it as, like others have said, without bufffage/civics regardless of ur rez sickness level = almost insta death.)
This is just a masked ploy in an attempt to sell more "I win" stuff from the SC shop. EQ1 has rez sick, returns you to bind when you release. EQ1 has no in-combat/ Out-Of-Combat difference with rezzes. EQ2 has rez sick (on most rezzes), returns you to a safe spot in zone (or just outside for some instances). EQ2 has several in-combat rezzes (2min recast) and an Out-Of-Combat rez. In Combat rezzes provide a heal & extra resistance for a short time. VG has rez sick and returns you to a safe place in zone. VG has 1 long CD in-combat rez and 1 GCD Out-Of-Combat rez. No difference between rezzes, little/no HP & mana once rezzed Huge penalty raid rez sickness for releasing is garbage. Milk the F2P's with your cash shop, not the people who've kept the game alive this long by paying for a sub. Look at your other games, then come back with some valid reasoning for such an absurd change. Vanguard has a higher penalty than EQ1 or EQ2 sans 1 thing.. EQ1 strips all buffs when rezzed. This is a waste of the programmer's time and our money, just to push more cure rez sick pots from the marketplace.
