Patch Notes 8/28/2013

Discussion in 'Test Server' started by TLoch, Aug 28, 2013.

  1. Alimora Well-Known Member

    Lorn why are you discussing abilities that are not included in the bbo system?
    We are discussing casted 1h buffs here, the others should all stack. disciple 2 min buffs should stack with cleric hp for example.
  2. Apaelias Well-Known Member

    I think he is discussing abilities not in the BBO because the new BBO systems throws current class balance out of the windows. This affects all areas of the game not just endgame raiders. A pally playing solo just got a boost, while a Warrior or DK got nothing. Same goes for all non-buffing classes. It is something that should have been considered IMO.

    Can we just leave buffs as is please?
    Kilsin and Lorn like this.
  3. Gresteh Active Member

    I agree with you, at least partially.

    In my opinion in order to preserve balance all classes should get buffs, it's the only way to keep some sort of balance in the game... in fact I think that all buffs should be redone and the stats distributed more evenly between classes...

    You can’t boost a paladin’s buff and therefore his solo capacity and forget about warriors and DKs... You can’t increase the amount of intelligence that a necromancer gives by 130 and not add some INT to the buffs of sorcerers and druids.

    I like the idea of BBO but it should be part of a FULL buff rewrite if there are intentions of keeping some sort of class balance.

    Tloch, Wigin pretty please with sugar on top, scrap the current buffs and start over again, a new buff system needs new buffs.
    Lorn and Koralith like this.
  4. dravid Well-Known Member

    I agree with leaving the buffs as it is.
    Kilsin likes this.
  5. Violet Active Member

    Guess I can pretty much retire my shaman from this. Sure used her as a buffbot and even created 2nd account to have her follow me around. Was even going to gear her up and bought unlocks along with other stuff. What a waste!

    Why change something that is working just fine is beyond me. To those who think buffbots are silly - sure they might be, but it's been this way for years. People got around this system and now with these changes we're playing a different game. A less fun one for me at least.

    My wish for the devs: please stop changing things that are far from top priority, rather release some new content, work on monetizing this game more (in a non-annoying way) so it stays afloat, and fix a few bugs here and there if you like! Such extreme changes are not what this aging game needs!
  6. Wigin Developer

    A couple of things
    After getting feedback Shaman Patron buffs will be converted to an hour long buff like the other buffs.
    We are not doing all stacking because it would be a drastic nerf to solo and group players to keep raiders at the same power level if we balanced it around everything stacking.
    There will be a couple more balance changes that will be going to Test in the future. The first iteration was going to be as close as we could make it to the existing system. Since the system is now understandable and workable on our end changing it becomes a simple task instead of a mess with unintended consequences. This system is also not going to live ASAP it will be on test through multiple iterations.

    I also want to restate why we are doing this. This gives us control and knowledge of current player power. This is something we need in order to give future progression by uncapping the stats in the future. That is our current goal with progression. There are quite a few things that need to happen before we are ready for that but we want to be able to progress player power again by giving items that are desirable for what stats they have instead of making items that are effectively Equipped Effect holders.
    Micstruth, Baldur, Kilsin and 4 others like this.
  7. Filzin Well-Known Member

    I can't even remember how many times I have heard people talk about what a disaster the code is in Vanguard. Our team is trying to fix it. If they are committed to doing it right, I am in support of it. The current version on test has lots of problems (almost devastating to some classes), but I don't think we should be so resistant to change. Don't rush it to live, lets get the next revision on test and provide feedback in an attempt to make this work. Nothing will ever improve if things remain the same. Now is our chance to provide feedback, lets make sure we do so. The change is going to happen, impact it as you can rather than stand by waiting for it to fail.
    Schiller likes this.
  8. Apaelias Well-Known Member

    The problem, I see, with the BBO system is that it is drastically increasing solo/small group player power. This BBO system may be a good thing for new end game content to come (which we all want), but it throws the balance away for everything solo/group that is already in place.

    Effectively you've just given a 55 Necro(for instance) a ~100ish increase in intelligence when soloing. That equates for a rather large % Spell Damage increase that was not accounted for when all existing content was designed.
    Lorn and Gresteh like this.
  9. dravid Well-Known Member

    Maybe instead of BBO try the top two buffs stacking?
  10. Violet Active Member

    Still not convinced, at least no auras please. I don't want to post silly quit threats, but 2 out of 3 characters I play will be nearly useless compared to how I use them now. Sure there are more players who use so called bots and keep them out of group for the most part.

    Remember I absolutely hated it in EQ2, those auras and not being able to buff a stranger.. so silly.
  11. Apaelias Well-Known Member

    I can understand the code is spaghetti. But with our spaghetti code with we get our flavorful class/buff system. The BBO system isn't doing anything but throwing raw noodles at tomatoes and claiming the flavor of the classes remain. It's going to take a lot more then a simple BBO system to maintain player power while fixing the code and making it less transparent.
  12. Apaelias Well-Known Member

    Something has to be done to reduce the drastic numbers from one buff. Whether it is top two as Dravid suggest or some kind of archtype stacking or something.
  13. Krolk Active Member

    I know the whole point is simplicity - but I have difficulty seeing a solution that makes a single best buff maintain current class solo/group/raid game interactions the same as they are now. Maybe they will have to change.
    Following on from Dravid's suggestion; how about having two values per buff - the first is if it is the highest buff present and the second is if it is not the highest buff present but gives a smaller value that stacks.
    I know this makes the whole system appear more complicated but I think it should still give the devs control.
  14. Gresteh Active Member

    That's actually a good idea, it may work... but I’m not sure if it would be easy to implement, and it may bring some other problems, for example it would make balancing encounters a little harder than with a BBO system, not by much, but given the size of the team that difference may mean several hours of extra work per encounter… hours that could have been spent somewhere else.
  15. Wigin Developer

    The first iteration did absolutely nothing to touch those classes that didn't have hour long class buffs. That level of balance is something this system is fairly easy to deal. For example in an upcoming patch sorcs will be getting Int added to their buff. This will no effect raiding power , as it won't be the best buff, in any way but it will help solo and group sorcs. Similar things can be done for other classes as well.
    Micstruth, Koralith and Gresteh like this.
  16. Kamor Active Member

    Thank you for listening. Balance for raiding is going to be the easiest, as you can assume all buffs will be present. Solo and small group will be the most difficult.
  17. Exmortis Well-Known Member

    I have never understood why buffs do not derive power from the group size. thus a buff cast with 6 will much more powerful than cast with 1, and much much more powerful when cast with 12 (max tiering) than 6.

    One of the run away issues with soloing is certain buff classes get an unfair advantage, if their buffs scale with group size, IE they draw power from the allied lifeforces around them, you remove much of the solo buff issue.
  18. Gresteh Active Member

    Nice!

    I know that the most important thing on this update is the BBO system itself and how it allows you to add new buffs quickly. Given the changes in class balance that the BBO is going to cause, I think that the best course of action should be scrap all buffs and start from scratch. It would give you the freedom to add buffs in a way that maintains raid, group and solo balance for all classes.
  19. Lorn Member

    I would like to see stuff in next patch dealing with static buffs it would be more encouraging to some classes that feel like there getting the shaft cause they cant buff a group. Or maybe add buffs to there arsenal to those who do not currently have them to make them some what viable compared to others.
  20. Alimora Well-Known Member

    Well sorry im the other side of the coin here, buffs are part of the class utility, if lets say dk's and warrior suddenly get a group castable buff, then something else has to be lowered.

    The big buff classes didnt really gain or loose all that much, its just the odd one out, like paladins, which should probably be addressed by lowering their BBO contribution rather than upping that of other tanks....
    Kamor and dravid like this.

Share This Page