Cleric DPS/Leveling/Skills scaling must be looked at Asap

Discussion in 'Healers' started by ARCHIVED-Francy, Sep 29, 2012.

  1. Playing my Cleric feels more and more like a 2nd Job and not like fun. Endurance problems all time. Renewal 1/2 only gives +10 End heal which is to less.
    Clerics need HELP urgend ! There arent many people to group with and Soloing needs to be a fun and viable option which it isnt for Clerics.

    > Level 1-10 Isle of Dawn was fun and the DPS Skills seemed to fit to the MOBs level and i had alot fun
    > Level 10-20 everything becomes slow, the Cleric feels weak and like a crawling slug. Hand of Censure is weak now and all other DPS skills as well. Disciple hit for 2000 dmg at this level.... Clerics for 200-400
    > Level 20-30 i dont know how i made it to 30 but even with a good 2hander the cleric just sucks now. playing him is no more fun and i gave up on thinking that clerics could become a class that could at least Solo with fun. Disciples hit for 2500-3000 dmg at this level. Clerics for 400-600 dmg
    > Give clerics some CRITICAL boost, they have 10-13% crit while Rakurr shamans are at 40% and Disc at 30% at the same levels. Its a pain to see no big numbers when playing a cleric....

    Usually i am out of endurance after 3 Hits before the Endurance regen comes in. The only DoT is also based on Endurance and is weak. The extra damage from "power of reprisal" is to low. The damage shield needs to be recast every 2 mins and is to weak.

    Level 50+ clerics might be better but i havent seen many yet, i havent seen many new Clerics either.
    Disciples / Shamans are a much better option than Clerics at least at low to mid level. DPS, Support skills, wards, Speed etc etc. Compared to my Shaman a Cleric is almost useless.
    Like it was neccessary to Revamp Druids which completly suck at low to mid level it is next neccessary to give Clerics a better position in the game compared to other healers.
    I wont delete my 2 clerics Level 18 and Level 30 (from a few years ago) but i wont play them either until someone fixed their crappy DPS scaling.

    how it could be >
    * Level 1-10 DPS is ok > 20-30 +60% DPS > 30-50 ?? no clue but i am sure that level range needs a boost too
    * Hand of Censure becomes HORRIBLE weak around level 16 , give it +150% wep damage and a stronger Dot
    * Endurance > Renewal = +15 or even +20 (no thats not to much because Clerics have nothing else for DPS)
    * Give the 2 Cleric stances more Bonuses like Shamans have.
    * Add extra DPS and some +crit %
    * add some Run Speed buff to Clerics 10-20% (yes because it sucks to be slow when Soloing and it doesnt hurt anyone else because theres no PvP)
    * Anathema is a joke after level 20 it does no damage at all to mobs anymore, it needs a 300% boost.....
    * Ward Shield is a joke and is its recast timer better 15 sec and 3 hits
    * Replenishing Strike is to weak , improve + 100%
    * Fist of Rebuke and Strike down both are to weak, give them 200% wep damage
    * Hammer of Penace is to weak imrove at least 50-100% like the Shamans mellee Dot
    * Alleviate Ticks every 3 sec. Make it 2sec and imrpove the heal by 25%
    * Aegis of Blades is to weak improve by 25% and make it last 5 minutes
    and so on and on this can be continued until all skills got at least 25-50% boosts....

    Clerics need some Love soon......

    P.S >If your are happy with your cleric and Level 50+ or in a perma group with friends then you dont need to waste your time and reply here. I wrote this for Clerics level 10-50 that have to Solo because there arent many opportunities to group in Vanguard.....
    Druids get their Revamp now Clerics should be next, it cant be that hard to compare the healer classes and see that clerics need some help as soon as possible.
    (no native english)
  2. I agree that Clerics need some type of endurance-regen boost, especially Warcaller Clerics, who spec, and receive penalties, just to be able to do more damage. I have a level 55 Guardian and a level 37 Warcaller Cleric.
    The Warcaller is a lot of fun, but suffers terribly from a lack of endurance, making the dps-oriented skills they receive something that can only be used in very short bursts. It is frustrating to constantly see your special crit-chains light up, and then not be able to use them for lack of endurance. As they lose 75% of their healing power while in their dps stance, the stance should be better to offset that loss.
    The skills and damage of the Warcaller is not bad, it is just that they cannot be sustained beyond 3-4 swings, then you are out of endurance, and it regens way too slowly. At the very least, the Warcaller should get some improved endurance regen while in Destroyer (dps) stance, although I am sure all clerics would like a bit more endurance regen in all stances!
  3. Schiller@Telon wrote:
    Perhaps a personal endurance regen buff similar to a Disciple's Leech debuff? That one debuff/buff alone is why I never really run out of endurance on my disciple and I keep it up all the time.
    That said, if you're (being the OP) looking for more DPS be prepared to give up the incredible healing you have as a Cleric. A Disciple may hit hard (for a healer) but their healing output isn't in the same class as a Cleric. Not to mention Clerics get some darn nice buffs.
    As for the groups... I find myself confused about that. There have been times when I've brought two Clerics into a group. No healer should be having a hard time finding a group. Though one thing I do notice is that two or three people of the same level range will post one after another they're looking for a group but then not send each other tells...
  4. For leveling a cleric I would recommend going war affinity. You can change it later for raiding if you want, but for leveling nothing beats the war affinity.
    If you want to do decent dps with a cleric you must put 4 points into str each level and wear str/dex gear. I always have 2 sets of gear on me and have macros to switch back and forth between the 2. One set is str/dex/melee damage/crit plate and the other is my healer set. It takes me seconds to hit my macros and switch gear.
    Also as a war cleric do NOT use the war stance that gives 20% damage but -75% heals, it is worthless. Use the castigators fury stance as it gives you faster refresh on your skills. You could stance dance to do the most damage, but as long as you have endurance the castigators fury stance is more dps as you can use your abilities more often.
    The best use of your endurance is first using hammer of penance and then just using strike down over and over and when you crit use your crit chain that you have as a war cleric, strike down has an increased chance to crit over any other ability so use it often. I do agree that endurance regen and costs are a problem for a cleric, it's in my consolidated issues thread from ages ago. I had the luxury of leveling up with a bear shaman and endurance was never an issue :).
    I am still a war cleric even at level 55 and still have 2 sets of gear that I routinely switch between. You just can't beat it for soloing as a cleric.
  5. Problem being if they increase our dps they'll probably have to take something away, most likely survivability. I have a fifty cleric and would prefer a slow advance through levels too losing my virtual immortality :)
  6. Clerics could use an endurance boost overall. Anything else should be placed into the affinity stances, along with a 30 second timer on stance switches to balance it out. I prefer to play my cleric as a healer, and would prefer that those abilities are not nerfed.
  7. Arent Clerics supposed to heal and debuff?? Usually my average DPS on a raid is like 2.
    Levelling was a lot of work and took more time because I had poor DPS, but thats what I signed up for when I chose the Cleric....

    Just ask Brohn....
  8. Gragory@Telon wrote:
    If you want to make the War Cleric affinity as worthless as the Death or Purity, just go ahead and make the stance cooldown 30 seconds. Worst idea ever stated for this class, bar none! The class does not need any nerfs to "balance out" an already needed adjustment! Remember, Aspect of the Destroyer stance already takes a huge toll from a Clerics main skills by doing 75% less healing in that stance. That's right--75% less healing for every healing spell they have! The cost of more damage in that stance has already been paid in spades! But the endurance to take advantage of that increased damage is not there. Some type of enhanced endurance regen while in Aspect of the Destroyer stance only is badly needed. It has already been paid for! The best bet would probably be to reduce endurance costs for all skills by 20% while in Aspect of the Destroyer stance ONLY. Make it a part of the stance, just like the healing being reduced by 75%. Would probably be very easy to code as well.
    As far as increased endurance regen in other stances, well maybe your argument to balance that out might make more sense, as the payment in reduction of healing does not apply to those other stances.
    No one in their right mind would change to Destroyer stance while in a group if the stance cooldown was 30 seconds. No one would risk not being able to heal for that long! As it stands now, with a ten second cooldown, a Cleric can change stances and do a bit of extra damage, but still must be careful and thoughtful about it, reading when to, and when not to, risk changing into Destroyer stance. To me, that is one of the things that is most fun about the class--you are not just sitting back and pushing the heart buttons, but if you want to play the class to its fullest potential, you have to stay on your toes and make decisions second by second. It adds pressure to playing the class that makes it far more exciting.
    If the cooldown was 30 seconds, I would not use the stance at all, not even solo, and especially not in a group. It would be the death of the stance altogether, if not the entire affinity as well. The Aspect of the Destroyer needs a small tweak, but what you suggest is akin to using a sledge hammer when a scalpel is called for. I would much prefer to see nothing done at all rather than this absurdity.
    Baldur said:
    "Also as a war cleric do NOT use the war stance that gives 20% damage but -75% heals, it is worthless. Use the castigators fury stance as it gives you faster refresh on your skills. You could stance dance to do the most damage, but as long as you have endurance the castigators fury stance is more dps as you can use your abilities more often." And "I had the luxury of leveling up with a bear shaman and endurance was never an issue."
    I couldn't disagree more. The destroyer stance is anything but worthless! It is not time that limits a War Cleric's damage, but rather endurance. What good is a faster refresh on your skills when you are going to be out of endurance in just 4-5 swings anyway, regardless of which stance you are in? Because I know I only have a limited number of swings before I run out of endurance, I would prefer to do the maximum damage I can from each of those swings, to get the most damage possible per point of endurance. If you had the perfect mix of buffs so as to make endurance "never an issue" then you are not seeing the true problem and the true limiting factor on those who do not have that "luxury". Aspect of the Destroyer gives the maximum amount of damage per point of endurance spent, and endurance is the limiting factor for most people playing this class. Besides, it is this stance dance, and the necessary thought and risk that goes along with it, that makes the affinity fun for me.
  9. Schiller@Telon wrote:
    Apparently you didn't read the initial post very closely. With the changes that were suggested, ward shield would protect for 1 additional target and have its refresh cut in half. Alleviate would be changed as well. I will use my cleric as an example. I would be able to protect against 5 attacks every 10 seconds, roughly. My dot would heal me for for at least 2400 every 2 seconds for 24 seconds. Who cares if I am stuck in aspect of the destroyer stance for 30 seconds. Not much will hurt me, and what does hit me will be healed pretty quickly. You would have roughly 6-7 seconds where you be even mildly concerned.
    And my idea isn't even the worst class idea in this thread. Clerics are healers, not dps. That is all they should be. Soloing is slow as a cleric, but that is what you get when you choose to play one. Other then a couple minor tweeks, nothing major is needed. Last think we need is a bunch of clerics running around thinking they are dps and not healing, which is are primary role.
  10. Gragory@Telon wrote:
    Yes, I did read the initial post, but it has no bearing whatsoever about most of my comments. The only thing I said about Clerics in general is that they would welcome a bit of an endurance regen boost, and I stand by that as something that would be useful and not overpowering in the least. I did not advocate for any of the suggestions in the original post, especially not for all the changes in skills the OP suggested.
    Every other comment I have made here deals specifically with the Warcaller Cleric only.
    Now as for the example you gave, you must remember that if you are stuck in Aspect of the Destroyer your healing is reduced by 75%, so your HoT will not be healing you for 2400 every 2 secs, but will only be healing you for 600 every 2 secs. (2400 X .25 = 600) Yes the reduction is for ALL healing spells, including every tick of a HoT as well. Also, your example only refers to solo play, yet your suggestion would be even more devastating to Warcallers in a group.
    In a group, a cooldown of 30 seconds on stance changes would effectively remove the Aspect of the Destroyer stance from play, period. As I said before, no Cleric healing for a group would dare to go into a stance that reduced healing by 75% if they had to stay in that stance for 30 seconds. That is just way too long to assume that the tank will not need heals. With the current 10 second cooldown, it is possible to utilize the Destroyer stance in a group, when the tank is not taking heavy damage, and add some worthwhile damage. It adds so much to the excitement level I feel as a healer to play my class tight and close to the edge, and makes me pay even more attention to what is going on around me, as I must judge whether I can change stances or not at any particular time. Playing a stance-dancing Warcaller in a group keeps me on the edge of my seat. A 30 second cooldown would take all that away, and leave Warcallers with a stance that truly would be worthless.
    I agree that Clerics are a good, solid class as-is and only needs a few small tweaks. Give Clerics in general a small bump in endurance regen--or don't--I really don't care either way, but I do believe they could use it. On the other hand, as Warcaller Clerics pay a heavy price for their damage stance (75% less healing) in order to be able to do some decent damage, then they should actually be able to do some decent sustained damage in that stance, and they currently can't because of endurance starvation.
    Warcallers are not getting what they paid for. Make Aspect of the Destroyer reduce endurance costs of melee skills by 20% while in that stance only. And leave the stance cooldown alone. We shouldn't have to pay again for something we already paid for. Plus, for those who choose not to use the stance, it would not change a thing.
  11. You're not "paying" for the warcaller stance by giving up 75% healing. That drawback is to ensure that the player of the character isn't stance dancing and trying to micro manage a DPS machine AND a primary healer role in the same group. How would you like it if level 55 bards all of the sudden began pumping out 20k crit heals?
    You have a role as a cleric. A warcaller forsakes that role when he enters the aspect of the destroyer and it's perfectly acceptable. Resolve heals enough endurance to keep the warcaller going - they simply cannot spam their number 2 button forever and easy mode their way to the top. Manipulate your autoattack damage. Find targets to fight that play more to your strengths than your weaknesses.
    Clerics are so rediculous as is that they threw the bell curve out the window on raid targets. When was the last time you heard a raid leader ask for a bloodmage to MH Shendu? Or a disciple to MH Sparkles? And now we have more content coming out focused around the difficulty of a cleric main healer...
    I'd be very careful about asking for balance were I the OP.
  12. Takamoro wrote:
    Actually, the ones who should be most careful about approaching balance issues are definitely the Disciples--the most OP'd class in Vanguard, bar none! Even more OP'd than Paladins were before the recent class revamp. So OP'd I remain in a constant state of amazement that nothing has been done already.

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